[patroclo]

---

Suggest me the better bid of sud and the continuation

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Systems ON .
And one of my partners likes to use 3-level jumps to show a 5-5 ( in the majors, here ):
3H!-jump = invite
3S!-jump = GF, slammish

[dwar0123]

Without using the 3-level jump system, I would bid 2♥(transfer) and then 4♥ natural and let partner decide which major is best.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

dwar0123, on 2011-December-03, 13:22, said:

Without using the 3-level jump system, I would bid 2♥(transfer) and then 4♥ natural and let partner decide which major is best.

I realize this is B/I, but
1NT - 2H!
2S - 4C/4D/4H = self-splinters

whereas:
1NT - 2H!
2S - 3C/3D/3H = GF, and ostensibly a 2nd 5 card suit ( although it could be a a good 4 ) .

[dwar0123]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-December-03, 14:44, said:

I realize this is B/I, but
1NT - 2H!
2S - 4C/4D/4H = self-splinters

whereas:
1NT - 2H!
2S - 3C/3D/3H = GF, and ostensibly a 2nd 5 card suit ( although it could be a a good 4 ) .

Thanks for the correction, played this wrong for 2 decades with a regular partner without either of us realizing it! Never seen it come up but would be bad if it did with a new partner

[bigbenvic]

dwar0123, on 2011-December-03, 13:22, said:

Without using the 3-level jump system, I would bid 2♥(transfer) and then 4♥ natural and let partner decide which major is best.

Same for me.

[Antrax]

TWO4BRIDGE, how do you ask for aces with a slammish hand with a five-card major opposite an NT opening?

[Zelandakh]

I learned that the "standard" 1NT system in America is for 1NT - 2D; 2H - 2S to be 5-5 majors invitational and 1NT - 2H; 2S - 3H to be 5-5 majors GF. Another option is to drop Gerber and use a 4C response to be 5-5 majors. The last question in the thread I do not really understand - why would you want to ask for aces before you have found a fit?

[Antrax]

Because I might also be interested in an NT slam. No?

[Vampyr]

If you play natural over NT overcalls (I prefer this), just bid 3♠ and correct 3NT to 4♥ if necessary.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Antrax, on 2011-December-04, 01:01, said:

TWO4BRIDGE, how do you ask for aces with a slammish hand with a five-card major opposite an NT opening?

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.... I must have missed your question.
Normally, if there is suit agreement, then 4NT = RKC for Sp; and if Hts are trump, I prefer 4S! = RKC.

[ I'm still trying to recover from the shock of Zelandakh's suggestion to DROP Gerber..... OMG ! ] .

[Antrax]

I agree. So let's say you sit opposite me, I open 1NT (15-17), you have a slammish 5-3-3-2 hand with a five card major, you transfer to the major, I complete the transfer, your bid.

[flametree]

Antrax, on 2011-December-12, 12:13, said:

I agree. So let's say you sit opposite me, I open 1NT (15-17), you have a slammish 5-3-3-2 hand with a five card major, you transfer to the major, I complete the transfer, your bid.

One option after 1NT-2x-2M is :
4NT is quantitative, slam-invitational, showing 5-3-3-2 (maybe some 5-4-2-2 hands too).
5NT is slam-forcing, showing the same shape.

4NT can't be RKCB, since you haven't agreed a trump suit yet.

If you had 6+ of your major, you'd use Texas Transfers prior to bidding 4NT.

If you're not playing Texas, you can still get by using 4C here as Roman Key Card Gerber, setting the major as the trump suit. You lose the ability to splinter a club shortage.

[aguahombre]

I think we can live with not having slam methods for a passed hand oposite a 1NT overcall.

The question is, do we want to insist on game in a major with this one? I don't, but that's just me. We have 3D available over the 1NT overcall for our 5-5 invite in the majors, and that is what I would do.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Antrax, on 2011-December-12, 12:13, said:

I agree. So let's say you sit opposite me, I open 1NT (15-17), you have a slammish 5-3-3-2 hand with a five card major, you transfer to the major, I complete the transfer, your bid.

I thought that is what you had in mind earlier.
With a slammish Responder's hand, rebid options are scarce when holding only 5 cards of the Major and NO 2nd 5 card suit (or good 4).
You could have the agreement of rebidding 3C! ( could be artificial ) to game force.
If Opener has 3 cards M , he will rebid 3M, and you can start cuebidding or RKC.

I have a borrowed system for Opener's replies ( which I've mentioned before ) :
For example:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 3C!
??
.. 3D! = cheapest new suit = agree Clubs ( 4 or 5 cards ) and only 2 cards Hts
.. 3H = 3 cards Hts
.. 3S! = next cheapest new suit = 4 (or 5 ) Clubs AND 3 cards Hts
.. 3NT = accept neither

If Opener agrees Cl ( 3D! ), you can bid 4NT! = Quantitative
If Opener agrees Hts ( 3H ), you can start cuebidding, and eventually use 4S! ( kickback RKC ).
If Opener agrees BOTH Cl and Hts( 3S! ), you can bid 3NT! ( serious, asking for cuebids ) or 4C! = 6 Ace RKC and settle in some number of Hts.
If Opener agrees neither ( 3NT ), you can bid 4NT! Quant.

[Fluffy]

patroclo, on 2011-December-03, 11:47, said:

---

Suggest me the better bid of sud and the continuation

The south hand is a game drive, so drive to game in the majors.

One option is a direct 4♣, it rightsides the contract (in this particular deal where you want a club lead from RHO), but the bid is not 100% clear you need partner on the same waveleght, still I would think that any expert would take it right.

The other options depends on what systems you have after 1NT, if you play the transfer then show spades then hearts, if you paly the better natural methods then you just bid a forcing 3♠, and after 3NT you bid 4♥ to show both suits.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-12, 18:24, said:

The south hand is a game drive, so drive to game in the majors.

And if South invites game with the majors, North won't look at his hand? This case is just too easy to even discuss whether South should drive to game or not. All that is important is to get North to pick the 8-card fit.

There are many hands where North has a 3-fit for a major, and game is not there. Give North some credit and let her decide strain and level.

[phil_20686]

I play smolen to take care of 54 GF hands, and play that 1n-2d-2h-2s is invitational 5-5. That seems like exactly this hand.

[aguahombre]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-12, 20:45, said:

I play smolen to take care of 54 GF hands, and play that 1n-2d-2h-2s is invitational 5-5. That seems like exactly this hand.

Yep, that's another way of doing it. On this hand, a classic 5-5 invite, the key is to make a 5-5 invite ---whatever the method.

[ggwhiz]

I don't see any reason to invite game with the positional and plus on play aspects.

In my partnership I would bid 2♣ stayman and if pard bids 2♦ as they would here, 4♦ for them to pick a major. Many 5-2 major suit fits will still make game and that's a reach only if pard is exactly 2-2 (5-4 or 4-5) shape.

The South hand is worth a lot more than an 8 count IMO and I'm driving to game.