[Antrax]

Matchpoints, none vul.

P-(1♣*)-P-(1NT)
X**-(P)-?

* could be a two card suit
** takeout of clubs

What do you bid with:
♠Qxx
♥Tx
♦KQx
♣JTxxx

[bigbenvic]

First thought is that lefty has a 3334 type hand, probably with 4 clubs. I reckon I'm bidding 2♦, 2♠ might be right but I would prefer a ♦ lead if they play the hand and I don't want to encourage partner to compete to 3S on a 4441 strongish hand.
♦/♠ should be 4333 if pards only has 4. He's also more likely to be 3451 than 5431.

I also don't think I have enough to pass 1nt. so 2♦ it is.

[Hanoi5]

I'm torn between 2♦ and 2♠. Partner might have only 3♦ so we'd play in a six-card fit instead of a seven-card fit. Besides, it's MP's, 2♠.

[S2000magic]

2♦. Not that I'd expect partner to get too excited by 2♠, but the diamonds are stronger.

[Antrax]

I went with 2♠ mostly because partner is more likely to want to compete with a decent holding in the majors. We ended up in a 3-3 fit, doubled (4-3 spades, though, and the opponents didn't lead trumps, as both thought the other was short). Partner had a 3=5=4=1 pattern with five bad hearts and 11 HCP. I was wondering if maybe bidding the lower suit is better for some reason, but I guess this is really just a case where partner's double was ill-advised.

[gwnn]

I would bid 2♦ because there's some chance that partner can pull to 2♥ if he has shortish diamonds and longish majors. Pass isn't bad, give me some more stuff and I'm in. Idle curiosity: how would they fare in 1NT?

[gordontd]

Antrax, on 2011-December-01, 01:42, said:

I went with 2♠ mostly because partner is more likely to want to compete with a decent holding in the majors.

This sounds like an argument against bidding 2♠.

[Antrax]

gordontd, could you elaborate?
gwnn, they seem to have 9 tricks in NT (at least, other than our (+300) result, the scoresheet has a lot of +150 and one +600. Also means I probably mis-remembered and they were actually vulnerable)

[gordontd]

Antrax, on 2011-December-01, 03:27, said:

gordontd, could you elaborate?

Since you know you would be in a 4-3 fit at best, and you already had an uncomfortable choice being made to bid when you didn't want to, you don't want partner to compete, do you? Life would be easier if he had already done a little less competing.

[han]

What I think that antrax meant is that partner is more likely to double 1NT with 4531 than with 3541. I don't know if this is true. I certainly don't agree with antrax that the double was ill-advised, a double with an 11-count 3-5-4-1 seems rather automatic. If anything perhaps not opening 1H was ill-advised, hard to say without knowing the hand. The first argument for bidding 2S that I can think of is that 2S making scores better than 2D making. That's quite an optimistic thought (going plus will often be good enough when you have a bad 8-count, partner is a passed hand and you don't have a fit). At IMPs you might bid 2S because it is harder to double this (game if it makes) but that's not a valid argument at MPs.

Several arguments for 2D have been mentioned. Your diamonds are stronger, you might escape from 2D but not from 2S, and partner is less likely to compete to the 3-level over 3D. The latter is not a big issue, partner is a passed hand and the opponents are not likely to bid again. Another argument is that the 1C opener is much less likely to hold 4 diamonds than 4 spades, assuming they open 1D with 4-4 in the minors (given the 1NT bid and our 5 clubs, it is not so likely that opener also has 5 clubs). This seems the strongest argument for 2D.

I think it would be good agreement to play 2C as "I don't know where to play!". Both opponents have shown clubs, and partner has made a takeout of clubs. This is not a situation where you would often want to play 2C.

I think 2C should function as an SOS redouble: at least two places to play. Partner should therefore probably bid 2D with 3541 shape, and with 4-4-3-2 shape partner would bid 2H and you could correct to 2S.

[gwnn]

Oh yea, 2♣ for some reason didn't occur to me. Thanks for that.

[Antrax]

Quote

What I think that antrax meant is that partner is more likely to double 1NT with 4531 than with 3541.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Or with 4432 more than with 3442. Is this an unreasonable assumption? Aren't you more likely to try and compete when you hold the higher-ranking suits?
The idea about 2♣ is very interesting. I think that's probably the best bid here. I'll discuss it with my partner.
As an aside, with good hearts is it still better to double than to bid 2♥?

[han]

Depends on the hand and the suit. With KQJ10x of hearts I'd definitely bid 2H.

[Antrax]

...and would also open 1H I'm guessing, with an 11-count, 5-4 shape and three tricks
In any case, thanks. I'll discuss this with partner (it's actually the second time a double left me stuck for a bid) and also let him know I was wrong to tell him "2♥ or wait for me to reopen"

[edit]
I wonder what 3♣ should be here?

[MrAce]

Antrax, on 2011-November-30, 04:51, said:

Matchpoints, none vul.

P-(1♣*)-P-(1NT)
X**-(P)-?

* could be a two card suit
** takeout of clubs

What do you bid with:
♠Qxx
♥Tx
♦KQx
♣JTxxx

i like

3541 or5341 doubles

5431 or 4531 bids 2♣ over 1NT