[Mbodell]

Good field, MP, Opponents include at least one "name" player. You and your partner are playing a normal 2/1 weak nt system, 3rd seat is usually 5+, but a good 4 is possible.

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Also, what's the minimum change in strength you'd need with this hand to take a different action with the same shape?

[ggwhiz]

I'll start with double.

If partner is gaming them we'll retreat to ♥.
If rho is gaming us with a running ♦ suit and runs, we'll retreat to ♥ and probaly game just to serve notice that we can't be pushed around.
If rho is gaming us with a running ♦ suit plus a ♥ stopper and sits for the double, maybe they got us.

To just bid game, I want Aces instead of the K, KQ. Too much danger that pards reason to bid is shape, ie. a stiff club wasting those cards on offence.

[bigbenvic]

I want to tell pards I'm close to game and that I either have a stiff ♦ (if we splinter) or a good ♣ suit (2 of top 3) (if we fit jump).

So I'm bidding the 3m that shows this.

If he's opened light and/or thinks my hand doesn't mesh with his nicely he can stop in 3 maybe avoiding a big minus in 4♥X and sometimes he'll be a little light but holding a hand that works well and can bid and make game based on what I've told him.

[MrAce]

Pd's 3rd seat light openings can be as light as a 1 level overcall. I would have bid game had pd overcalled 1♥ and thats what i will do now without giving much info to opponents about my hand since i have no interest in playing slam.

4♥

[Phil]

2N and then 4 hearts I think.

[pooltuna]

take away a K and I just bid 3♥

[quiddity]

I don't think it's clear cut. Bidding game could work but we're aceless with bad trumps, and the bidding tells us that any trump finesse is offside. Partner can be light in 3rd seat.. it just feels too likely that we could be off a couple of trump tricks and a couple of side tricks. Double could work; I might do that if they were vul, but I'll be sad if they can escape for -100. They might even make it if partner is light and they have a source of tricks in diamonds.

I think I would just go low in hearts and hope the bidding helps me to go plus where others are going down in 4H. If we have a bid to show an invite (maybe 2N/3H?), that looks about right.

[mike777]

x seems clear I could not have a better hand as a passed hand.

I mean this is almost an opening hand for me, wow.

If I dont x with this then just give up playing penalty x by a passed hand.

[phil_20686]

mike777, on 2011-November-26, 16:33, said:

x seems clear I could not have a better hand as a passed hand.

I mean this is almost an opening hand for me, wow.

If I dont x with this then just give up playing penalty x by a passed hand.

Doubling 1NT for penalty with a ten card fit is bad:

(1) they probably have a big fit of their own, and it runs we could be -380 with 4H cold. It is really not hard to construct even worse results.
(2) If they run out, which they will if weak with a ecent suit, it will be impossible to convince parter about the quality of your fit. Given the chance of a random psyche, this is a concern.
(3) we seem to have a decent chance at game.

I have sympathy with those who dont want to bid game, but it could easily just be cold. xx KQxxx Axx Axx

is just a totally normal weak NT which will make 11 tricks. AJx KTxxx Axx xx is good for ten despite losing two trump tricks. These arent even including the hands where there are 3 diamond ruffs available instead of just two.

[the_dude]

phil_20686, on 2011-November-27, 11:11, said:

Doubling 1NT for penalty with a ten card fit is bad:

That's my philosophy. The opponents have a big fit somewhere, and even if they don't bid it, it could easily be good enough to take the first 7-8 tricks in 1NT*.

To me the choice is between 3H and 4H. While 3H may well be our limit (and I hate throwing away +140 at MP), I prefer to give the opponents the tough guesses ... 4H.

Phil's 2NT is also an option .. it will let our partner know that our subsequent 4H is to make .. however it also allows LHO in the auction. I'm not sure I want that.

[marcD]

My hand is too good for 3♥, x could work out very badly so i'm left with 2NT (showing good 3♥ raise 4+trumps with shortage even if not explicitely agreed I would expect my partner to figure it out)

[MrAce]

Deleted hand diagram*

Nevermind i forgot its mp.

[mike777]

I guess not so clear I emailed this one around and got various responses including first and second choices of:


1) 4h
2) 2nt, limit raise
3) 2h
4) x
5) 4d, bergen raise showing this type of hand, 5h and 1-1.5 QT outside.

[Mbodell]

FWIW at the table I tried 2♥ planning to take it slow and hope for a plus score. The 1nt overcall was on a 14 count and 2♥ was +170 for very few matchpoints. 1ntX is close and may make but is likely down 1.

[mike777]

Mbodell, on 2011-December-03, 05:44, said:

FWIW at the table I tried 2♥ planning to take it slow and hope for a plus score. The 1nt overcall was on a 14 count and 2♥ was +170 for very few matchpoints. 1ntX is close and may make but is likely down 1.

would you please post the full deal. thanks

[Mbodell]

This was the full hand (rotated). It was hand 24 of the 1st qualifiers of the LM Pairs (set 85609)

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Some MP results (out of 25, many sections so same score gives slightly different results):

+800 25
+590 25
+500 24
+420 13 or 15.5 or 14
+400 5
+300 4
+170 1 or 2.5 or 2
-50 0 or 0.5
-100 0.5

I got 1/25 for my +170.

Looks like 1ntX is actually down more like 1-4 tricks depending on how the suits get sorted out, but they probably run to a pointy suit that is likely down only 1 or 2 if we let them play it.

[mike777]

WEll a tough hand to post in b/i playing in LM nat tourney.


Too many permutations.

1ntx down what?

pard may open 1nt not 1h I would

opp may run and we may bid 4h \

etc.

[Mbodell]

mike777, on 2011-December-10, 18:26, said:

WEll a tough hand to post in b/i playing in LM nat tourney.

Well, yes, but I was most curious about if this was a clear cut decision. The few players I polled in person in Seattle all said that this was a clear cut X. I'd normally want 10+ for a X of 1nt (and they all said a decent 9 is easily good enough) and I was obviously nervous given the 3rd seat opening and the big heart fit and short diamond. Looks like from this poll, and the one you sent around, that this isn't a clear cut decision but either 4♥ or X is most popular and both are likely to end up in 4♥ eventually on this hand. I think X is probably better than 4♥ as partner might well be weaker (say trade the A and J of spades) where 4♥ is down since partner doesn't have to have 15. Many in the field probably opened 1nt with the N hand where E/W will stay out of it and 4♥ will be easily bid.

Quote

pard may open 1nt not 1h I would

I agree many people would, but it is a poor call playing a (11+)12-14 nt IMO.