[fromageGB]

Zelandakh, on 2011-November-20, 04:54, said:

@fromageGB, on your given auction would you lose alot by using 4H as natural and 4S as RKCB for diamonds? Obviously clarity is good but I think you could easily tweak the wording of the meta-agreement to be more effective overall.

Well, if you did change the agreement so that a possibly ambiguous bid was natural, rather than kickback, and use a higher bid for ace asking, you lose the space that kickback gives. Without that space, we cannot show all aces and trump queen yet still stop at 5♦, and when your next bid is one level up to ask for specific kings, there is no room to show them precisely and stop at 6♦. So you would need some sort of condensed responses that would not cater for all circumstances, and, importantly, take more memory.

Of course, in my hypothetical sequence, you could not have 4♠ as ace asking in diamonds anyway, as this is kickback for my heart suit.

In practice, I have been playing it for years and not yet had any situation where I regret the metarule no 2 that "if it could be ace asking, then it is".

[Free]

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-20, 12:36, said:

Why does the logic "you can set trumps before bidding keycard" apply, but the logic "you can just rebid your suit before jumping to 4" does not?

Because with good hands you want to be able to go slow, and preferably show the difference to partner. With weak hands you want to hide as much information as possible, so you would prefer to jump. The principle of fast arrival.

For example, holding a minimum hand without slam interest but with 4♥, I would rather bid 4♥ denying any slam interest, than having to bid 3♥, letting partner pattern out or cuebid, and rebid 4♥ after that. It will be clear that I don't have slam interest, but perhaps we already gave away the best lead to opps by letting opener bid again. When I'm strong, the extra information we give away doesn't matter that much imo, because usually we'll play slam and control all suits anyway.

[fromageGB]

It's not easy, and not only do you need rules, but you need to be on the same wavelength as well.

1♦ 1♠ 2♥ 4♥ seems right as natural (fast arrival as Free says), and you have no problems agreeing diamonds first if you wanted it to be ace asking - you bid 3♦ then 4♥.

But 1♠ 2♥ 3♦ 4♥ - again a jump to the 4 level - has to be ace asking in diamonds, not natural. This time there is no room to agree diamonds first, so (rule 2) "if it can be ace asking, it is". In this sequence, there IS room (playing 2/1 GF) to bid 3♥ then 4♥ if you want to play in hearts.