[mikestar13]

This thread has got me interested in sharing about Real Diamond Precision, a system I have developed over time with a couple of regular partners. This post will describe the basics and more will follow if there is interest.

The openings:

Of course, 1♣ is 16+ (17+ if balanced).

1♦ is the key system bid: 10-15, four+ diamonds, not balanced. It will be five+ unless .holding 4-4-4-1 or a five-card club suit.

1♥: 10-15, five+ hearts, not balanced. May be 4=4=1=4 exactly (rare).

1♠: 10-15, five+ spades, not balanced.

1NT: 13-16, balanced (4-3-3-3, 4-4-3-2, or 5-3-3-2). Open 1NT with a five-card major unless the suit is so strong you are willing to treat it as a six-carder.

2♣: 10-15, six+ clubs or five+ clubs and a four-card major.

2♦: 10-15, four spades and five hearts, insufficient playing strength for a reverse, no void. (see below before you F******y-haters comment).

2NT: 21-22 balanced.

Other openings to taste.

The openings above are designed to be 100% ACBL GCC-legal. For ACBL Mid-chart games, or most any game in the more enlightened jurisdictions, use Kaplan Inversion in response to 1♥ and fold the F******y hands back into 1♥, freeing 2♦ to be used as desired.

Using this structure, your opening natural suit bids are guaranteed not balanced and show a real suit. The rebid of a new suit is always four+ cards. Opener's no trump rebids can be used artificially to solve various problems.. More details later, or devise your own uses.

The shape guarantees do not apply to tactical third- and fourth-hand openers.

Pros (vs. other Precision methods):
Excellent definition of shape.
No nebulous 1♦ begging to be preempted. Accurate 1♦ sequences, even in competition.

Cons:
You have to pass balanced 12's in first and second seats. (I don't mind this a bit, others will find this a fatal flaw.)
2♣ is harder to handle when you don't guarantee six.

[Zelandakh]

A couple of things. First of all I think you would find it a winner to move the 4414 hands out of 1H and into 1NT, thus making 1H always 5+. Secondly, you can get even better definition for the key 1NT and 2C openings by allowing 15 point hands into the 1C opening. It is simple to arrange the rebids to allow for this. A 10-15 range is ok when 2C promises 6 but with the full spectrum of precision shapes it becomes very difficult to handle. Finally, you might consider going the full hog and going over to a Polish/UAC-style 3-way club with weak NT structure. I suspect if you go through the full optimisation routine for this system premise this is where you will end up.

[gwnn]

I prefer awm club to this.

http://www.bridgebas...new-crazy-idea/

2♣ with 54 or 6 is a little bit clumsy and 13-16 is quite clumsy. Why not just play 12-14 and 15+ strong club? of course then you will have problems with 1♣. It's give and take but passing 12 is scary and having a 4-point NT range is also bad.

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2011-November-17, 03:22

[Free]

Imo passing balanced 11-12 counts in precision is a really poor strategy. It puts pressure, just like the other limited openings do. "Lets open light on some hands, and pass with a hand which every other pair will open"...

You can solve this quite easily: make sure your NT range is similar to the limited openings. Make your 1♣ opening 16+ all the time and you can switch to a 12-15 1NT opening. Make it 15+ (even better imo) and you can play 12-14 or 11-14 or 11+-14 (whatever you prefer).

Note: I don't know anything about ACBL system regulations except that they suck. So don't blame me for suggesting something which isn't allowed.

[mikestar13]

Free, on 2011-November-17, 03:24, said:

Imo passing balanced 11-12 counts in precision is a really poor strategy. It puts pressure, just like the other limited openings do. "Lets open light on some hands, and pass with a hand which every other pair will open"...

You can solve this quite easily: make sure your NT range is similar to the limited openings. Make your 1♣ opening 16+ all the time and you can switch to a 12-15 1NT opening. Make it 15+ (even better imo) and you can play 12-14 or 11-14 or 11+-14 (whatever you prefer).

Note: I don't know anything about ACBL system regulations except that they suck. So don't blame me for suggesting something which isn't allowed.

The NT range modifications can easily be done and many will prefer this. By the way, we do upgrade freely, so we will open many 12's but I personally dislike opening all flat 12's. Your mileage may vary.

Zelandakh, on 2011-November-17, 02:30, said:

A couple of things. First of all I think you would find it a winner to move the 4414 hands out of 1H and into 1NT, thus making 1H always 5+. .. <snip>

No blame to anyone for not knowing ACBL regs, no one does (especially ACBL itself). but the consensus seems to be that opening 1NT with a singleton by partnership agreement is not allowed (it's OK as bridge judgement if rare). In the rest of the world, you are quite correct.

[mikestar13]

gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 03:19, said:

I prefer awm club to this.

http://www.bridgebas...new-crazy-idea/

2♣ with 54 or 6 is a little bit clumsy and 13-16 is quite clumsy. Why not just play 12-14 and 15+ strong club? of course then you will have problems with 1♣. It's give and take but passing 12 is scary and having a 4-point NT range is also bad.

You have some good points, but awm club won't be allowed in ACBL: the 1♥ transfer opening is illegal even at the Mid-chart level. It is legal on the Super Chart, but there are virtually no Super Chart events in North America If you aren't good enough for the Vanderbilt or the Spingold.

[gwnn]

Yea that's a bummer.

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

1♣=15+
1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)
1♥=natural
1♠=natural
1NT=12-14
2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)
2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

[whereagles]

Mike: seems like Reese's precision

[akhare]

gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 06:03, said:

Yea that's a bummer.

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

1♣=15+
1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)
1♥=natural
1♠=natural
1NT=12-14
2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)
2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

Pard and I play the above structure except that our NT opening is 14-16.

[gwnn]

so 1♦ is not necessarily unbalanced?

[akhare]

gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 10:50, said:

so 1♦ is not necessarily unbalanced?

Yes, good catch -- our 1♦ can indeed include 11 - 13 bal. In your experience, does removing balanced hands from the opening confer an advantage?

[rbforster]

akhare, on 2011-November-17, 11:07, said:

Yes, good catch -- our 1♦ can indeed include 11 - 13 bal. In your experience, does removing balanced hands from the opening confer an advantage?

Of course having a more specific 1♦ opener is going to be better than 2+, the question is what are you doing with the balanced hands? Passing 0-13 balanced seems super conservative, opening 4 card majors on balanced hands doesn't seem so good, and so that leaves either dropping your strong club from 17+ to 15+ and playing one NT range, or playing 2 ranges with a 2+ diamond opener. I feel like either of the latter options is playable, not sure which I would prefer.

[gwnn]

I loved 1D auctions honestly, even in competition. You knew that (excuse all the handwaving beyond this point) if partner opens 1 D it is probably worth looking for his suits, whereas if he may have a balanced hand, you should show your suit if you have one, while if you have no suit, it's probably right to pass.

[straube]

mikestar13, on 2011-November-17, 02:11, said:

This thread has got me interested in sharing about Real Diamond Precision, a system I have developed over time with a couple of regular partners. This post will describe the basics and more will follow if there is interest.

The openings:

Of course, 1♣ is 16+ (17+ if balanced).

1♦ is the key system bid: 10-15, four+ diamonds, not balanced. It will be five+ unless .holding 4-4-4-1 or a five-card club suit.

1♥: 10-15, five+ hearts, not balanced. May be 4=4=1=4 exactly (rare).

1♠: 10-15, five+ spades, not balanced.

1NT: 13-16, balanced (4-3-3-3, 4-4-3-2, or 5-3-3-2). Open 1NT with a five-card major unless the suit is so strong you are willing to treat it as a six-carder.

2♣: 10-15, six+ clubs or five+ clubs and a four-card major.

2♦: 10-15, four spades and five hearts, insufficient playing strength for a reverse, no void. (see below before you F******y-haters comment).

2NT: 21-22 balanced.

Other openings to taste.

The openings above are designed to be 100% ACBL GCC-legal. For ACBL Mid-chart games, or most any game in the more enlightened jurisdictions, use Kaplan Inversion in response to 1♥ and fold the F******y hands back into 1♥, freeing 2♦ to be used as desired.

Using this structure, your opening natural suit bids are guaranteed not balanced and show a real suit. The rebid of a new suit is always four+ cards. Opener's no trump rebids can be used artificially to solve various problems.. More details later, or devise your own uses.

The shape guarantees do not apply to tactical third- and fourth-hand openers.

Pros (vs. other Precision methods):
Excellent definition of shape.
No nebulous 1♦ begging to be preempted. Accurate 1♦ sequences, even in competition.

Cons:
You have to pass balanced 12's in first and second seats. (I don't mind this a bit, others will find this a fatal flaw.)
2♣ is harder to handle when you don't guarantee six.

Why don't you tally your openings for say a few hundred hands and let us know what the percentages are for your openings? It's really useful to post that information whenever looking for feedback on new openings. Offhand, I'd guess something like...

P-60%
1C-14%
1D-4%
1H-3%
1S-3%
1N-13%
etc

and if so, you're putting too much pressure on your Pass and your 1N and not enough on your 1D. No doubt you'll have some advantage when you open 1D, but can it really make up for your other losses? a 4-pt NT range? passing 11-12 pt balanced hands? burying 5-cd majors in 1N when you are too weak to uncover them in competition?

Besides this, opening 2C with what could be Axxx AQx x Jxxxx is a problem...as is opening 1H with 4414. Opening 2D Flannery looks wrong because the first two available responses are sign offs when they really ought to be forcing bids; 2D as Flannery handles too few hand types and is a wasteful use of this opening.

[mikestar13]

straube, on 2011-November-17, 18:16, said:

Why don't you tally your openings for say a few hundred hands and let us know what the percentages are for your openings? It's really useful to post that information whenever looking for feedback on new openings. Offhand, I'd guess something like... <snip>

Besides this, opening 2C with what could be Axxx AQx x Jxxxx is a problem...as is opening 1H with 4414. Opening 2D Flannery looks wrong because the first two available responses are sign offs when they really ought to be forcing bids; 2D as Flannery handles too few hand types and is a wasteful use of this opening.

Point well taken some research is needed. But the 2♦ Flannery is only for ACBL General Chart games, I don't actually like it. And in those games the (admittedly non-trivial) cost is the natural weak 2♦ Most of interesting uses (Multi, etc.) are disallowed anyway.

[mikestar13]

gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 06:03, said:

Yea that's a bummer.

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

1♣=15+
1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)
1♥=natural
1♠=natural
1NT=12-14
2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)
2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

This is actually quite good, but others can present this better than I, as they have more experience with it. I'm presenting what has worked for me. Suggested modifications are welcome.

[akhare]

mikestar13, on 2011-November-17, 19:41, said:

This is actually quite good, but others can present this better than I, as they have more experience with it. I'm presenting what has worked for me. Suggested modifications are welcome.

In that case, +1 for what Gwnn suggested .

As other have noted:

• You don't P as often
  
• You get to open the 11/12 bal hands
  
• Responder is better placed after a 2♣ opening
  
• The 1♦ opening is more nebulous, but it's limited to 5♦ and pays back with the ability to use 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♦ as a good raise and 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♥ as a bad raise
  
• There's no 13-16 NT range (a tighter 14-16 with an upgrade to 1♣ when in doubt works better IMO
  
• The 2♦ opening is arguably a better use for the opening

The above has worked very well for pard and I...

[gwnn]

foobar, this is the structure we played over 1♦ (following Andrei Sharko's writeup): I realise that I am hijacking a little, so I will hide it to consume less space.

Spoiler

1♦-1♥
1♠=4 spades, not 4 hearts
1N=minors
2♣=4 hearts, 5+ ♣
2♦=4 hearts, 5+ ♦
2♥=4 hearts in a 4441
2NT=5-5 max in minors
rest=raises

and the funny part is
1♦-1♠
1N=minors
2m=this minor+hearts
2♥=spades+clubs (perhaps 4144)
2♠=spades+diamonds

we played 1NT as a GF relay and 2m as minor-oriented hands ("pass/correct/raise for opener's longest minor"). this might not be best.

[straube]

gwnn, on 2011-November-18, 10:47, said:

foobar, this is the structure we played over 1♦ (following Andrei Sharko's writeup): I realise that I am hijacking a little, so I will hide it to consume less space.

Spoiler

1♦-1♥
1♠=4 spades, not 4 hearts
1N=minors
2♣=4 hearts, 5+ ♣
2♦=4 hearts, 5+ ♦
2♥=4 hearts in a 4441
2NT=5-5 max in minors
rest=raises

and the funny part is
1♦-1♠
1N=minors
2m=this minor+hearts
2♥=spades+clubs (perhaps 4144)
2♠=spades+diamonds


we played 1NT as a GF relay and 2m as minor-oriented hands ("pass/correct/raise for opener's longest minor"). this might not be best.

When you respond 1M does that deny a GF hand? Is it forcing? What is opener's rebid after 1D-1H with x Axx Kxxxx Axxx ?

[gwnn]

straube, on 2011-November-18, 11:28, said:

When you respond 1M does that deny a GF hand? Is it forcing? What is opener's rebid after 1D-1H with x Axx Kxxxx Axxx ?

The way we played it yes but I'm pretty sure it's not needed. And we used to rebid 1N with that hand (both minors).

Basically I really like the opening structure and I don't mind any reasonable continuations. It was cool that this way opener could usually show both suits by his second turn (5m4M is by far the most common hand type in 1♦).