[sasioc]

I honestly have no idea if this is a really stupid question or not but here we go. You hold the following, 3rd in at unfav. You open 1♠ and your partner bids 2♠. You play 2 way drury so p could have shown a "good passed hand" with either three or four card support. Your partnership style is to open light in all seats, especially with a 5cM (p would open most flat 11 counts). Are you bidding again and if so what?

♠ AQJ92
♥ AKT3
♦ QJ
♣ T6

[BunnyGo]

At MPs I'm less likely to stretch than at IMPs (especially at these colors). However, I think I'm bidding 3♥ in either situation here. Partner just needs

Kxxx, xx, Kxx, xxxx

to make game a very nice prospect. Not sure if he'll go with this hand opposite a 3♥ bid, but there are other hands he could have where he will go.

In general, I try to take my plusses at MPs (if the game is makeable, but hard to make you get a good score for +170 anyways and +140 is much better than -100) but at IMPs (especially red) the game needs to only be about 40% to make it worth being there.

[S2000magic]

You have a 6-loser hand (and a good 6-loser hand at that). You should be safe at the three level opposite even a pretty poor 3-card raise, so I'd definitely bid 3♥.

[mich-b]

This looks like a normal hand to invite with.
How exactly to invite is less important , I would bid 3♥, but don't think it matters much if the invitation bid is 3♣, or 3♦, or a "general" 3♠.

[S2000magic]

mich-b, on 2011-November-16, 06:59, said:

This looks like a normal hand to invite with.
How exactly to invite is less important , I would bid 3♥, but don't think it matters much if the invitation bid is 3♣, or 3♦, or a "general" 3♠.

If partner has 4 hearts, the 4-4 heart fit will likely play a trick better than the (presumed) 5-3 spade fit (or even, possibly, better than a 5-4 spade fit); bidding 3♥ gives partner a chance to raise to 4♥ with 4-card support.

[Fluffy]

I count 5.25 losers, and that is not taking ♦QJ into account. Facing a 6-9 raise (wich suposedly covers from 2 to 3 losers) I'd bid 4♠ at IMPs, invite at MPs. Not sure of your range though.

[sasioc]

I thought the was raise was more like 5-7.

Given that p had effectively denied 11 by passing, I thought he'd need a bit less to go through drury, although this had not been specifically discussed. I expected him to have 8 points only if poor and balanced. It was teams, sorry I forgot to say that in my first post

[Fluffy]

narrows the range to 1.5/2.5 covers, still enough for game to be avaible, invite in IMPs then. I am not sure if 3♥ or 2NT, I think 2NT.

[aguahombre]

I would make whatever game try lets partner know that the King of trump and 3rd-round heart control are golden, so we can get the hand over quickly after losing 4 Minor-suit tricks.

[billw55]

I want to be in game if and only if partner holds a diamond honor. So I bid 3♦.

[aguahombre]

billw55, on 2011-November-16, 09:40, said:

I want to be in game if and only if partner holds a diamond honor. So I bid 3♦.

KXXX XXX AXX XXX? KXXX QX KXX XXXX?

A sim might be interesting if it just included hands which would accept based on the try which was used, whether it be random, help (whatever that is), source (3H), or whatever.

I will take an uneducated guess that a very high number of hands which would accept a particular try would result in an inferior game.

[neilkaz]

I'd invite for sure. In fact, and vul at IMPs, if I weren't allowed to invite, I'd just bid game.

[billw55]

aguahombre, on 2011-November-16, 09:52, said:

KXXX XXX AXX XXX? KXXX QX KXX XXXX?

A sim might be interesting if it just included hands which would accept based on the try which was used, whether it be random, help (whatever that is), source (3H), or whatever.

I will take an uneducated guess that a very high number of hands which would accept a particular try would result in an inferior game.

Hmmm am I missing something? I have a doubleton club, so on the first hand game is on the diamond hook and the second hand it is cold. That is pretty much what I had in mind.

[aguahombre]

billw55, on 2011-November-16, 10:07, said:

Hmmm am I missing something? I have a doubleton club, so on the first hand game is on the diamond hook and the second hand it is cold. That is pretty much what I had in mind.

Yeh, sloppy examples. Maybe my whole post was sloppy.

[nigel_k]

sasioc, on 2011-November-16, 07:32, said:

I thought the was raise was more like 5-7.

Given that p had effectively denied 11 by passing, I thought he'd need a bit less to go through drury, although this had not been specifically discussed. I expected him to have 8 points only if poor and balanced. It was teams, sorry I forgot to say that in my first post

I think Drury with a decent 8 HCP is ok but for most people it is 9-11. But aguahombre's Kxxx Qx Kxx xxxx ought to be too good for a 2♠ raise because of the extra trump.

I would try 3♥ but could easily reach a poor game or be down 1 at the three level.

[Fluffy]

aguahombre, on 2011-November-16, 08:56, said:

I would make whatever game try lets partner know that the King of trump and 3rd-round heart control are golden, so we can get the hand over quickly after losing 4 Minor-suit tricks.

I think you are mistaken, ♠K is not a great card for partner to hold as it only gives you half a trick. ♦K will be better (unless accompained with the ace), and ♣K a bit worse if lonely, but better if acompained with ♣A, ♣Q or even ♣J.

[mikeh]

It's definitely not a stupid question but, as the answers suggest, it would be helpful to know the form of scoring.

Some would try for game at any scoring, but many would choose to take the plus by passing at mps. At mps, passing has more than one way to win: not only are you virtually a lock to go plus, while either game or 3♠ could go minus, but any game try you make risks informing the defenders on opening lead and later play. So even if 3♠ is safe, and the gametry gets you there, you may fare worse.....you might have made 170 in 2♠ and only 140 in 3♠

Assuming that it's imps, I think the chance of game is enough to warrant a try....the main problem is that we really don't have much of a try available. We have no short suit try (in the event that you have ssgt's available in your methods) and AK10x is not my idea of a help suit. Moreover, the notion that a 4-4 fit will often play a trick better doesn't usually apply to this hand-type. The odds are that the opps will be taking whatever minor suit tricks they hold very early in the play if partner has the hoped for spade K and QJxx in hearts...he won't have the Ace of either minor and will seldom have the club K either..

In one of my partnerships, drury includes a good constructive raise, and I'd pass then, but otherwise I try 3♦ as my hsgt.