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finesse v 3-3 break when other suits are breaking

#1 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2011-November-13, 05:37

Here is a hand I saw presented as a problem for, I guess, beginners/Intermediates

West leads J and the suit breaks 4/4 with East having AK75. West now switches to J. How do you play the hand?

The solution basically said that we need 5 tricks from and the finesse at 50% is better than the 3-3 break at 36%. It did mention that the finesse is not quite 50% to make the contract because of the possible 5/1 split but this is even less likely than usual after the 4/4 break.

But it seems to me that the two lines are much closer than that. Not only does the 4/4 break make a 3/3 break a little more likely, there are various clues that the are breaking as well (West leads rather than , East didn't overcall 1) which will push the odds of a 3/3 break higher; restricted choice suggests that West is more likely to be 3/4 in the majors than 4/4, and on hands where East has Jx, he is likely strong enough to have made a take out double.

So what do you think the relative chances of the two lines are?
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#2 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-November-13, 17:51

View PostEricK, on 2011-November-13, 05:37, said:

So what do you think the relative chances of the two lines are?


Assuming you win the spade K and then cash the club KA and both players follow you know both players have 1 spade, 2 clubs, and 4 hearts for 7 known cards. The odds of 3-3 diamonds when both players have 6 vacant spaces is 43.29%. If you assume that both players have at least 2 spades you get 5 vacant spaces and the 3-3 split is now 47.62%, exactly as likely as a 4-2 split. If you "know" that spades are 4-3 in some direction, so both players have at least 3 spades (so only 4 vacant spaces each for 6 diamonds, a spade, and a club), then the 3-3 odds become 57.14%. With only the 7 known cards the odds of a 1=5 diamond split are 3.9%. A 0=6 break is another 0.11%. So in the 7 know cards, before even counting if E would act with enough points, the finesse is only 46%. In the 5 vacant spaces the finesse is 47.62% - exactly the same as the drop. And in the 4 vacant spaces the finesse is 50%.
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-November-14, 04:46

Playing AK before the decision risks going down 3 if you guess the position wrong. Is this really worth it?
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-November-14, 05:49

I didn't go through the numbers, but as a rule when one side suit breaks, the odds are that the other side suits will break as well. This hints at playing from the top.
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