[Free]

I don't think many pairs have discussed this sequence in particular, but I just don't see much merit in playing 3♥ as NF.

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2011-November-04, 07:02, said:

I think everyone is playing it as "hearts". The question (apparently) is how many it shows and how forcing it is.

Nonsense.

You and MrAce suggest to bid 3♥ as a sort of stopper exploring 3NT as final contract.
This is a far cry from suggesting ♥ as a trump suit, when partner has denied length in ♥.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

rhm, on 2011-November-04, 13:03, said:

Nonsense.

It's a shame that you spoil your contributions to these forums with such intemperate (and inaccurate) remarks.

Quote

You and MrAce suggest to bid 3♥ as a sort of stopper exploring 3NT as final contract.
This is a far cry from suggesting ♥ as a trump suit, when partner has denied length in ♥.

No, I suggested that partner would know* I didn't have six hearts. I later said he might raise to 4♥, thinking that I had five of them.

I think MrAce's argument was that 3♥ wasn't an attempt to overrule partner as to the trump suit. He doesn't make it clear how many hearts he thinks he's showing, but I assume that he's expecting to be raised with Hxx. (I began my previous post with the words "I think", because I wasn't sure or MrAce's exact meaning in this respect.)


* "Know" was a slight overstatement. I should have said that partner wouldn't play me for six hearts.

[MrAce]

rhm, on 2011-November-04, 05:13, said:

It is well known that it is usually much better to play in the long suit of the weaker hand for very obvious reasons.

Typical Rainer statement, makes little or no sense to me. Because there are SO MANY factors that affects the tricks taken, in strong or weak hand's trump. But this alone can keep us busy for another 2-3 forum pages of debate...It is also amazing that this comes from a person who in another topic argued strongly that we should pass with 12 hcp and Hx in pd's suit when he made a vulnerable 2/1 overcall. Now he suggests we should bid 3♥ that wasnt good enough to act b4. Because weak hand's trump plays better.

rhm, on 2011-November-04, 05:13, said:

If that is the situation there are many hands for partner, which will be worthless in anything but ♥. The hand will be bad, but not the ♥ suit.

Here we go, after throwing a very shallow statement now we are building our bidding strategy on it as if it was a very reliable base to start with.

rhm, on 2011-November-04, 05:13, said:

And there is this little principle that majors count for more in this game than minors.

Rainer will say this but he won't tell about 3NT. Of course we all know minors get game bonus by comitting to 5 level and trying to take 11 tricks while majors do that 4 level and 10 tricks. But facts are facts only when they work for Rainer. For example he completely ignores the importance of 3NT, ESPECIALLY when one of us mentioned a good hand WITH a decent long minor suit

Pd's 3♣ did not show a monster, he would DBL. Even if u find a 5-3 6-2 6-3 ♥ fit often u will go down in 4♥ if u dont have a fit to your pd's ♣, u basically dont have the strength to play 4♥. Of course the hands that has fit in minor should be priority in this auction, not the ones that has no fit to pd, weak hand, weak ♥ and decided to get in at 3 level. WoW !

rhm, on 2011-November-04, 05:13, said:

If we start constructing hands there are tons of them where partner could not act over 1NT, not least because any action over a weak notrump in 2nd position should be considered mildly constructive, yet 4♥ will be the only game in town, while 3♣ will be down.

Are u telling me that you are not capable of making preemptive bids over weak NT white vs red ? If you are going to construct hands, please make sure u take out the hands that would make a preemptive bid at these colors. And then whatever is left to you come up with them and we go from there to see how profittable it is to play 3♥ natural bid that doesnt promise a fir to pd. Because by playing this you are disabling pd to bid 3 NT, you are disabling him to make another call etc etc..

mycroft, on 2011-November-03, 12:36, said:

Okay, I guess I could be ♥KQJxxxx and out with a club void. But I can't see where being able to bail has anywhere near the utility of "find the best game" opposite a constructive overcaller.

This is an easy 3♥ bid over weak NT imo, i would do it with less than this at these colors.

han, on 2011-November-04, 08:25, said:

Maybe forcing is better, I was not making a case for NF.

Agreed

gnasher, on 2011-November-04, 13:28, said:

I think MrAce's argument was that 3♥ wasn't an attempt to overrule partner as to the trump suit. He doesn't make it clear how many hearts he thinks he's showing, but I assume that he's expecting to be raised with Hxx. (I began my previous post with the words "I think", because I wasn't sure or MrAce's exact meaning in this respect.)

Yes Andy, thats what my intention was. And yes i expect to be raised with Hxx.