[sathyab]

Playing 2/1, you start proceedings with 1♣ holding

---

,
both Vul at MP.

LHO bids 2♥ weak, partner bids 2♠ which is F1 but not GF. You bid 3♥ now, which is GF, either looking for a stopper or a hand with ♠ support. Partner bids 3♠. You have a choice of signing off now, or cue-bidding. If you bid 4♣, there's obviously some confusion whether it could be simply show a good hand with ♣s, as a direct 3♣ over 2♠ would be NF and a direct 4♣ over 2♠ would be conventional showing at least 4-6 in the blacks, whereas 4♦ and 4♥ are free from such ambiguity. But the more important question is whether you should bid more at all.

Partner's 3♠ obviously denies a stopper. What he'd bid with a stronger hand is not something if you've discussed at length. Presumably he could bid a new suit or may be planning to bid more over opener's rebid.

[EricK]

What would 4♥ on previous round have shown?

[sathyab]

EricK, on 2011-November-03, 12:48, said:

What would 4♥ on previous round have shown?

I am pretty sure that if either of us had bid 4♥ the other would have treated it as primary ♠ and shortness in ♥. As for strength, it obviously has to be at least this strong since you're forcing to game opposite a free-bid which was only a one round force. But whether it should show exactly this strength, which makes sense as you're taking so much more bidding room or be possibly stronger is a good question.

[MrAce]

I'd bid 4♥ previous round.

[pooltuna]

EricK, on 2011-November-03, 12:48, said:

What would 4♥ on previous round have shown?

BINGO

[EricK]

sathyab, on 2011-November-03, 12:59, said:

I am pretty sure that if either of us had bid 4♥ the other would have treated it as primary ♠ and shortness in ♥. As for strength, it obviously has to be at least this strong since you're forcing to game opposite a free-bid which was only a one round force. But whether it should show exactly this strength, which makes sense as you're taking so much more bidding room or be possibly stronger is a good question.

I don't know what strength it should be either! Probably anything will do as long as you come to an agreement beforehand. But what about 3NT now? Mustn't that be a mild slam try for ♠(given that if you had no fit for ♠ you would just have bid it last round)?

[Phil]

EricK, on 2011-November-03, 13:10, said:

But what about 3NT now? Mustn't that be a mild slam try for ♠(given that if you had no fit for ♠ you would just have bid it last round)?

How would you bid a hand with good clubs and a partial heart stopper?

[tolvyrj]

Mustn`t that be a mild slam try said it all. If u r sure prd will take as that then its a good bid; on the other hand if u have to ask, dont bid it.

[neilkaz]

MrAce, on 2011-November-03, 13:05, said:

I'd bid 4♥ previous round.

Me too. Now I'll bid what ever I think PD will take for a slam try, noting that it is encouraging the he has no stopper and we could be playing with a 30 pt deck after losing 1♥ trick.

[aguahombre]

Given that 2S is only f1, 4H would have been just right. Partner is the boss after that.

If 2S were G.F.+ the given hand is too strong for 4H on my small planet, where the splinter denies extras.

[han]

Why show your hand when you can make an ambiguous gameforcing bid?

[Phil]

I think the hand is a little too good for a splinter. If partner signs off in 4♠ are we sure we've shown the full extent of our hand? OTOH give me a similar hand with diamond shortness - KJTx Axx x AQJxx and I would splinter since it gives partner room for 4♥.

[Trinidad]

For me, this hand is a little too strong for a direct 4♥. I would bid a direct 4♥ with a small club instead of the king. And I find a king stronger than minimum a little too much. (But if my partner would bid 4♥, I can live with that.)

I kind of like a direct 4♣, but I should have another club for that. This bid has a somewhat wider range than 4♥.
I would probably bid 3♥, followed by 4♥.

Rik

[gwnn]

oops deleted

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2011-November-04, 11:13

[cherdano]

Phil, on 2011-November-04, 07:04, said:

I think the hand is a little too good for a splinter. If partner signs off in 4♠ are we sure we've shown the full extent of our hand? OTOH give me a similar hand with diamond shortness - KJTx Axx x AQJxx and I would splinter since it gives partner room for 4♥.

Doesn't matter I think. I agree the hand is maximum, and that 4♥ has a wider range than you would like if you allow this hand to be in it. But Bbidding 4♥ right away is still a better description than bidding 3♥ and then bidding 4♥ or 4♦.

[gszes]

Note how everyone wants to bid more so forget about the possible
importance of pass it is completely irrelevant to this hand which
is easily game forcing and has some slam interest.

over 2s a much stronger bid is 4h this should show a hand
with roughly 4135 or 4144 12-15. This bid has the advantage of
setting spades (unlike the 3h bid) and immediately allows p to
evaluate how their hand looks for slam. The fact that you play
4c as showing 64 helps to limit the types of distribution you
can have and makes the 4h bid even more accurate. Save those
3h cuebids for hands that dont have any clear cut call or have
lots of extra values making a fast arrival bid less valuable.

[sathyab]

Ok, the consensus seems to be that 4♥ over 2♠ is a much better description of the hand. Oh, BTW, if you think you're too strong for it, consider that partner could have bid 2♠ with ♠AQJxx ♥Qxx ♦Qxx ♣xx. Making 11 tricks when trumps break 3-1 and ♣s break 4-2 should be good enough for some Matchpoints.

The problem is that sometimes you think of the right bid right after you have made another bid (or if you're lucky it won't occur to you till dinner break). In case you think this happens only to ordinary mortals, you should read articles by Kit Woolsey on bridgewinners.com, where he frequently presents what choices were available in bidding and play and what happened at the table. You will be surprised how often their choice att is not even among the top two alternatives.

So assuming that you didn't bid 4♥ the previous round, what do you do now, was the original question and it still is.

[sathyab]

gszes, on 2011-November-04, 10:32, said:

Note how everyone wants to bid more so forget about the possible
importance of pass it is completely irrelevant to this hand which
is easily game forcing and has some slam interest.

over 2s a much stronger bid is 4h this should show a hand
with roughly 4135 or 4144 12-15. This bid has the advantage of
setting spades (unlike the 3h bid) and immediately allows p to
evaluate how their hand looks for slam. The fact that you play
4c as showing 64 helps to limit the types of distribution you
can have and makes the 4h bid even more accurate. Save those
3h cuebids for hands that dont have any clear cut call or have
lots of extra values making a fast arrival bid less valuable.

When I said 'Bid more' I meant bid more than 4♠. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 3♥ was GF.

[Trinidad]

sathyab, on 2011-November-04, 11:59, said:

Ok, the consensus seems to be that 4♥ over 2♠ is a much better description of the hand. Oh, BTW, if you think you're too strong for it, consider that partner could have bid 2♠ with ♠AQJxx ♥Qxx ♦Qxx ♣xx. Making 11 tricks when trumps break 3-1 and ♣s break 4-2 should be good enough for some Matchpoints.

The problem is that sometimes you think of the right bid right after you have made another bid (or if you're lucky it won't occur to you till dinner break). In case you think this happens only to ordinary mortals, you should read articles by Kit Woolsey on bridgewinners.com, where he frequently presents what choices were available in bidding and play and what happened at the table. You will be surprised how often their choice att is not even among the top two alternatives.

So assuming that you didn't bid 4♥ the previous round, what do you do now, was the original question and it still is.

I would bid 4♥ now, showing a hand that is about a king stronger than an immediate 4♥ bid. With the hand that you give (♠AQJxx ♥Qxx ♦Qxx ♣xx) partner will sign off in 4♠.

Rik