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Transfer defense over 1N

#41 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2011-November-15, 09:38

regular transfers when you are probably outgunned in values = You do not understand competitive bidding.

Look at it for opponents point of view

It allow 2 options for bidding a suits . direct bid & Pass and bid,

It allow 3 options for X. X and pass, X and X & pass and X

It also allow a cheap cuebid.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
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Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#42 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2011-November-15, 16:12

View Postbenlessard, on 2011-November-15, 09:38, said:

regular transfers when you are probably outgunned in values = You do not understand competitive bidding.

Look at it for opponents point of view
It allow 2 options for bidding a suits . direct bid & Pass and bid,
It allow 3 options for X. X and pass, X and X & pass and X
It also allow a cheap cuebid.
In exchange, the (strong) NTer is on lead if we play.
The described hand is on the table if we play.
Wild two-suiters can get both suits in, and you can (at least frequently) distinguish which one's longer.
At least with the system I used to play, you don't get to bid 2♣, so you don't overcall on stupid club hands. In addition, when you *do* overcall in clubs, you take the entire 2 level away (while still allowing lebensohl over 2♠, of course).

None of the above apply when we choose to pass the transfer to play in our suit, of course, but then again, neither of your first two apply either. When you overcall very aggressively, the chance that "my suit is better than your suit" is high enough that the opponents do have to deal with it (I would suggest that the right hand for that came up once or twice a year (almost always in diamonds, for some reason)).
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#43 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-November-15, 20:49

As someone who has often played a 10-12 NT, I am delighted when i sit down against opponents who play transfer overcalls. Why? The method id inferior for reasons i have mentioned earlier, and it also indicates to me that the opps have not thought through the ramifications of the method. If you reallu must play something like this, at least play SOAP, which is far better than any of the methods described in this thread so far.
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#44 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2011-November-15, 22:26

Compare:

2♦: either major (multi, but not weak)

to

2♦: transfer to ♥s
2♥: transfer to ♠s

Scheme 1 (2♦=1M) frees up the use of 2♥ for other meanings, at not that much cost compared to the transfers of Scheme 2.
'I hit my peak at seven' Taylor Swift
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#45 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 01:28

agree and it make life much more difficult for the oppenent.

PS Glen there is a typo in your signature its a great quote by H.L Mencken
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#46 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 02:27

not a typo, it's a pun.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#47 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 09:17

View Postthe hog, on 2011-November-15, 20:49, said:

As someone who has often played a 10-12 NT, I am delighted when i sit down against opponents who play transfer overcalls. Why? The method id inferior for reasons i have mentioned earlier, and it also indicates to me that the opps have not thought through the ramifications of the method. If you reallu must play something like this, at least play SOAP, which is far better than any of the methods described in this thread so far.

Hi Ron, what is SOAP? I can't google it.
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#48 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 09:51

http://www.blakjak.d...k/def_1nt11.htm :)

2♣=♥
2♦=♠
2♥=4 hearts+6m
2♠=4 spades+6m
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#49 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 10:33

View Postglen, on 2011-November-15, 22:26, said:

Compare:
2♦: either major (multi, but not weak)
to
2♦: transfer to ♥s
2♥: transfer to ♠s
Scheme 1 (2♦=1M) frees up the use of 2♥ for other meanings, at not that much cost compared to the transfers of Scheme 2.
Except, at least in the ACBL, the inability of legally playing it in 90% of the games. But then you knew that :-)

Having said that, it will change eventually. I'm hoping, really, that when it does, we go back to "all defences to NT allowed" rather than carving another "one-system" exception into the GCC.
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#50 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 11:45

View Postgwnn, on 2011-November-16, 09:51, said:

http://www.blakjak.d...k/def_1nt11.htm :)

2♣=♥
2♦=♠
2♥=4 hearts+6m
2♠=4 spades+6m


Wow, you're a wizz, thanks. ♥ B-)♥
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#51 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 12:56

View Postmycroft, on 2011-November-16, 10:33, said:

Except, at least in the ACBL, the inability of legally playing it in 90% of the games.


lol.

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#52 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-November-16, 18:08

View Postjillybean, on 2011-November-16, 11:45, said:

Wow, you're a wizz, thanks. ♥ B-)♥


There is more to it than that.
Over 2C 2D denies a H fit and shows 4 or 5 S; same with 2D 2H.
2NT over 1NT shows the minors.
SOAP stands for System over artifical pre emption. It can be used over ferts and other artificial pre emptive bids as well as over 1NT. We use it as a generic defence to these bids.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#53 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-November-17, 03:26

View Postjillybean, on 2011-November-16, 11:45, said:

Wow, you're a wizz, thanks. ♥ B-)♥

Jillybean imitating Lurpoa, now I've seen everything :P
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#54 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-November-18, 00:11

View PostFree, on 2011-November-17, 03:26, said:

Jillybean imitating Lurpoa, now I've seen everything :P





♥ ♥ ♥


I think it is fun :P


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