[vang]

please help me with a simple (i'd preffer simple to perfect) defense against this opening:
"1h = 7-9 / 14-16 bal" -- the opening is passable (with 3+ hearts cf CC)

[dake50]

Surely not ACBL (agreement to open on less than 8 is forbidden)
I like 1S with 7-9, 3+S so passable or 14-16 bal.
That'll bound the T/O dbl as real values bal or real spades.

[Gerben42]

How about:

Dbl: 15+ any
1♠: Natural
1NT: Hearts
2♣: Clubs
2♦: Diamonds
2♥: Both majors
2♠: Both minors
2NT: 19 - 21 NT

[Free]

I fail to see the point of bringing the ACBL to such discussions over and over again. If we're discussing non natural systems they're usually forbidden in the ACBL anyway, and mentioning this for the 1001st time simply doesn't answer any of the questions asked...

As for the topic, I can't come up with a good defense in just a few minutes. At the moment I'd probably play Dbl as values, natural overcalls (including 1♥-2♥), weak jumps, 1NT standard with system on,... Not sure what's the best use for 2NT. If it goes 1♥-p-p I guess you can probably get a reasonable result by considering the 1♥ opening to be natural.

Perhaps another interesting idea (inspired on another thread) may be to use Dbl as a ♥ overcall or a takeout Dbl of ♥, but I haven't thought this through yet. So don't shoot me!

[Vampyr]

Free, on 2011-October-12, 10:25, said:

I fail to see the point of bringing the ACBL to such discussions over and over again.

Indeed, the "Romania" might have been a giveaway.

My regular partner and I normally play DBL=strong NT over strange openings. One scheme here might be to do this and play 1♠ as natural, and 1NT, 2♣ and 2♦ as transfers. 2♥ could be strong takeout of hearts, or natural, or also a transfer with some weak hands including one-suited with spades. Not sure what the best use of 2♠ is, or how to handle hands that are too strong for a strong NT. Perhaps transfer to something and then bid NT, or play 1♠ as a transfer to NTs, though I think that the natural 1♠ may be too valuable to give up.

The idea expressed above that double is takeout or penalty of hearts is very interesting; I like to use this over pass-or-correct bids, but I also haven't thought this through about over this opening.

[the hog]

Agree with Free's comment re the ACBL. What was the point of this post?

A simple method we used against Ferts and other bids of this nature.
X = 15+, step = neg
1NT = 12-14, can be off shape
2C = transfer to H; now 2D shows no H fit but 4S
2D = nat over this one HUM bid system
2H = 4H and a longer minir, 12-15
2S = intermediate 2
2NT = 12-15, 5/5 minors

This is a generic defence against HUMS and it is called SOAP - system over artificial pre emption. It works quite well over the opps NT openings as well, except you add in that 2D is a transfer to S.

[mikestar13]

By the way this is also relevant to ACBL members who also play in other venues, such as Europe, Australia, or for that matter on line. When in Rome might it not pay to be able to counter what the Romans do?

[vang]

thanks everyone, I have made a mix from your suggestions:

DBL = strong, any 16+ HCP, (first step negative response)
1S = natural (8-15 HCP, normal overcall)
1NT = 11-15, 5m+4M (2C=p/c, 2D=ask major, 2H=p/c)
2C/D/H = natural 11-15 (minor overcalls denies 4cM because of 1NT)

in 4th pos:
- after 1H - p - DBL=normal takeout to hearts, anything else natural
- after (1H) - (1S = relay) - as above (strong double, 1NT=5m4M, 2x=natural)
- after (1H) - (2 any = natural NF) - normal takeout doubles

[the hog]

vang, on 2011-October-13, 03:22, said:

thanks everyone, I have made a mix from your suggestions:

DBL = strong, any 16+ HCP, (first step negative response)
1S = natural (8-15 HCP, normal overcall)
1NT = 11-15, 5m+4M (2C=p/c, 2D=ask major, 2H=p/c)
2C/D/H = natural 11-15 (minor overcalls denies 4cM because of 1NT)

in 4th pos:
- after 1H - p - DBL=normal takeout to hearts, anything else natural
- after (1H) - (1S = relay) - as above (strong double, 1NT=5m4M, 2x=natural)
- after (1H) - (2 any = natural NF) - normal takeout doubles

So how do you show a heart suit?

[vang]

the hog, on 2011-October-13, 03:24, said:

So how do you show a heart suit?

2H (ugly, but you can't have it all...)

[Fluffy]

if this shows 3+ hearts the best defence is to play exactly the same as if they opened natural 1♥, except that now 2♥ is natural.

[Vampyr]

Fluffy, on 2011-October-13, 08:50, said:

if this shows 3+ hearts the best defence is to play exactly the same as if they opened natural 1♥, except that now 2♥ is natural.

The 14-16 hand is balanced so probably promises 2 hearts, but my guess is that the 7-9 can be any shape. The OP was ambiguous.

[vang]

Vampyr, on 2011-October-13, 20:50, said:

The 14-16 hand is balanced so probably promises 2 hearts, but my guess is that the 7-9 can be any shape. The OP was ambiguous.

it's 7-9 BAL or 14-16 BAL.

[Free]

vang, on 2011-October-14, 02:39, said:

it's 7-9 BAL or 14-16 BAL.

oh!

[gnasher]

I'd play something based on a defence to 1NT. Perhaps:

Double = 14+ balanced or any very strong hand
1♠ = 4 spades and a longer minor
1NT = 4 hearts and a longer minor
2♣ = majors
2♦ = one major
2♥/♠ = 5 of the major and a four-card minor
2NT = minors
3♣/♦ = natural one-suited

The bids should all be hands that would open the bidding.
I wouldn't worry much about trying to take a penalty. An easier way to exploit the opening bid is to get to a normal contract and then use the extra information in the play.

After 1♥-pass-pass, play the same except that that the double has a lower limit.

[JmBrPotter]

vang, on 2011-October-11, 11:19, said:

please help me with a simple (i'd preffer simple to perfect) defense against this opening:
"1h = 7-9 / 14-16 bal" -- the opening is passable (with 3+ hearts cf CC)

WGregg and I use a standard DONT based defense against all conventional/oddball openings below 1NT. It may not always be ideal, but it has the advantage that we have a defense in place without needing to cobble something together from opponents' notes and opponents' stuff extracted from some "Defenses to Whatever DataBase". Here goes. Defending against 1-suit conventional we . . .

Double: Sound opening bid (15+ HCP) with length and strength in the doubled suit or a lower ranking suit or a balanced hand with a stopper in any suit shown by the oddball opening.

1-suit: Sound opening bid (15+ HCP) with length and strength in the bid suit.

1NT: Relay to 2♣ with a one-suited hand. Pass or correct after Partner's forced 2♣ bid---strength (typically, about weak two opening values and distribution) varies with vulnerability and whether or not Partner has passed.

2♣: Clubs and another suit---strength and two-suited-ness vary with vulnerability and whether or not Partner has passed.

2♦: Diamonds and a major---strength and two-suited-ness vary with vulnerability and whether or not Partner has passed.

2♥: Both majors:---strength and two-suited-ness vary with vulnerability and whether or not Partner has passed.

Higher Bids: However your partnership already uses them---WGregg and I use 2♠ (♥s) and 2NT (♠s) to show preemptive 6-5, 6-6, 6-7 with the anchor suit and a lower ranking suit. Suit bids above 2NT are one-suited preempts, and 3NT shows a preemptive minor suit 6-5 or more two-suited hand.

Responses and rebids follow DONT practice or partnership styled "bridge logic" responses and rebids after a preempt.