[Antrax]

Matchpoints, EW vul.
♠AK
♥K84
♦832
♣KT864

I deal and open 1♣, LHO overcalls 1♦ and partner bids 1♠, which in our style shows 5. RHO passes. What do I bid?
What if partner's 1♠ shows only four?

[mike777]

 Antrax, on 2011-October-05, 00:20, said:

Matchpoints, EW vul.
♠AK
♥K84
♦832
♣KT864

I deal and open 1♣, LHO overcalls 1♦ and partner bids 1♠, which in our style shows 5. RHO passes. What do I bid?
What if partner's 1♠ shows only four?

I open 1nt.........solves so many issues

If I must open 1c then i rebid 1nt really easy

[Antrax]

We play 15-17. No ♦ stopper is not a real concern?

[mike777]

 Antrax, on 2011-October-05, 00:35, said:

We play 15-17. No ♦ stopper is not a real concern?

NO


LETS NOT CREATE PROBLEMS OUT OF COMMON HANDS

again I open 1nt ten minutes ago.

[aguahombre]

 mike777, on 2011-October-05, 00:42, said:

NO


LETS NOT CREATE PROBLEMS OUT OF COMMON HANDS

again I open 1nt ten minutes ago.

Let's don't create upgrades because they would make the current problem non-existent. Saying 13 is 15 does not make it true.

[Cyberyeti]

 aguahombre, on 2011-October-05, 01:48, said:

Let's don't create upgrades because they would make the current problem non-existent. Saying 13 is 15 does not make it true.

No, he's suggesting playing a weak no trump makes this a non problem. Without getting into the weak/strong no trump debate, you have 16 with no stop less often than 13 with no stop so this is a problem you have less in the weak no trump auction. You may have a problem in 3N more often when lefty leads his suit however.

If I played a strong no trump, I would agree that the 1N rebid doesn't show a stop here.

I feel I've met a number of pairs where a slow 1N doesn't show a stop

[Antrax]

I had a problem on this common hand, that's what the thread is about. I'm going to assume 15-17 1NT openings aren't inherently broken, and stay with them for the time being. If this hand is worth an upgrade to 15, please explain why. Assuming it's not, what DOES 1NT promise here? Minimum values, no support, balanced shape and that's it? How can responder know when to take the NT out and when not to?

[jmcw]

 Antrax, on 2011-October-05, 02:17, said:

I had a problem on this common hand, that's what the thread is about. I'm going to assume 15-17 1NT openings aren't inherently broken, and stay with them for the time being. If this hand is worth an upgrade to 15, please explain why. Assuming it's not, what DOES 1NT promise here? Minimum values, no support, balanced shape and that's it? How can responder know when to take the NT out and when not to?

It's no where near 15/17, there is nothing to upgrade.

You have 3 choices for a rebid

1NT
2♣
2♠

Problem is they all suck,...that's life. No safety bids available in bridge.

[gwnn]

1NT doesn't show a stop in these situations (these situations = 1mi-(something)-(something)-pass). It's a good thing to know because otherwise you will often be stuck

[Cyberyeti]

 Antrax, on 2011-October-05, 02:17, said:

I had a problem on this common hand, that's what the thread is about. I'm going to assume 15-17 1NT openings aren't inherently broken, and stay with them for the time being. If this hand is worth an upgrade to 15, please explain why. Assuming it's not, what DOES 1NT promise here? Minimum values, no support, balanced shape and that's it? How can responder know when to take the NT out and when not to?

It promises whatever you and partner agree it promises, and I'd recommend agreeing that it didn't promise a stop, ie what it promised without the overcall. With a pickup, anybody's guess.

[aguahombre]

As to the question about knowing when to take it out: with normal weak responding values just take it out to 2 of a suit if you would have without the diamond overcall. It is only the one-level...no fear.

If going for game in notrump without a stop yourself, you might consider giving partner another shot at showing one if available. On this auction, I don't think jumping to 3 diamonds is needed for anything else. NMF is available for other hand types.

[pooltuna]

2♣ is the only real choice alternative to pass and 1NT

[bd71]

 aguahombre, on 2011-October-05, 08:09, said:

As to the question about knowing when to take it out: with normal weak responding values just take it out to 2 of a suit if you would have without the diamond overcall. It is only the one-level...no fear.

If going for game in notrump without a stop yourself, you might consider giving partner another shot at showing one if available. On this auction, I don't think jumping to 3 diamonds is needed for anything else. NMF is available for other hand types.

1. Not sure I understand what partner's options are for showing a ♦ stopper; are you saying that's what a jump to 3♦ should show? Why not just a 2♦ bid? Or would any return to NT by responder be showing a ♦ stopper?

2. I would not have thought that NMF is "on" here, after interference. Is this standard? Regardless of whether it's standard, is it best to play that NMF is on after this typs of interference?

[kenrexford]

Your style offers a solution.

With a balanced hand and no diamond stopper, 2♠ is a reasonable contract. Had you been playing the touted weak 1NT, ostensibly you would be in 2♠ without interference anyway.

If RHO had raised diamonds, you could perhaps have made a support double to show two spades (because partner has five).

Without the interference, maybe the cue should show true support and the simple raise a doubleton without a stopper?

1♣-(1♦)-1MAJ(5+)-P-
?

2♦ = 3+ major support; might bid again with game interest
2MAJOR = 2-card "support" without stopper

Alternatively, it might be better to invert these, with the cue showing 2-card support, to allow this auction:

1♣-(1♦)-1♠-P-
2♦!-P-2♥(natural)-P-
P-P

Opener might also use the cue as "2-card support, could be 18-19 without sufficient diamond stoppers."

[jmcw]

 kenrexford, on 2011-October-05, 08:22, said:

Your style offers a solution......
..........
2♦ = 3+ major support; might bid again with game interest
2MAJOR = 2-card "support" without stopper

Alternatively, it might be better to invert these, with the cue showing 2-card support, to allow this auction:

1♣-(1♦)-1♠-P-
2♦!-P-2♥(natural)-P-
P-P

Opener might also use the cue as "2-card support, could be 18-19 without sufficient diamond stoppers."

Interesting solution. Now we have a cuebid to show no real support and no stopper. Would that be an "inverted cue".

[kenrexford]

 jmcw, on 2011-October-05, 08:31, said:

Interesting solution. Now we have a cuebid to show no real support and no stopper. Would that be an "inverted cue".

Actually, it is not that strange of a concept. A cue as "no clear direction" makes intuitive sense to me.

[ArtK78]

I would rebid 2♣. Given the option of strongly implying a diamond stopper (if not promising one) by rebidding 1NT, supporting spades on AK or rebidding KT864 on a balanced hand, I choose the lesser (least?) lie of the club rebid.

The following hand is a better case for a 1NT rebid without a stopper:

♠AK
♥K842
♦832
♣KT86

Here, your choices are supporting spades on AK tight or rebidding 1NT without any semblance of a diamond stop. The lesser lie would be 1NT. However, if the spade bid promises 5 cards (as OP states), I would probably raise spades.

[neilkaz]

 mike777, on 2011-October-05, 00:42, said:

NO


LETS NOT CREATE PROBLEMS OUT OF COMMON HANDS

again I open 1nt ten minutes ago.

As you obviously are aware, much of the world doesn't play weak NT. So..as to not create a problem with a common hand, I just rebid, as has been discussed here many times, 1NT to show my weak NT opener and worry about sorting out a ♦ stop later if PD moves towards game.

I want a third spade to rebid 2S and noting AK tight can lead to transportation issues if PD can't get back to his hand. I'd rebid a very good 5 card club suit, but not this sort of suit.

[Phil]

Agree with Ken. (edit - except this strange vague cue idea)

If, "in your style", 1♠ shows four, which is what most of the world plays, and we held AKx, K8, xxx, KTxxx, I think we'd all say this is a wtp 2♠ call.

Now, granted, when partner promises four, there's a better chances he holds five (versus when he promises five, hoping for six). Still, there's no reason why the 5-2 shouldn't play well.

I don't go out of my way to bid a stopperless 1N when there are better options available.

[jmcw]

 kenrexford, on 2011-October-05, 08:45, said:

Actually, it is not that strange of a concept. A cue as "no clear direction" makes intuitive sense to me.

No intent to suggest it was strange. I actually think it has genuine merit.