[wclass___]

It is interesting for me how different systems handle spade raises.

Many pairs play that 1♠-1NT can be made with weakish hand and 3 card support making 1♠-2♠ more like invitational. It does have some advantages like 1♠-1N-2♦-3♠ (weakish raise that improved from ♦ rebid) or making for opponents hard to judge how much to bid if at all.

However if we end up in ♠ after 1♠-1N-2♦ start it will be more easy for opponents to defend and if opps bid something responders concealed fit might make it hard for opener to judge whether to compete or not. etc.

Clearly 1♠-1NT with 3 card support isn't too bad, but frequency of these hands are really high so even a small loss is a loss.

System ''ambra'' uses 1♠-2♥ as ♦ GF or weak ♠ raise.

Which is your preferred approach and how would you rate these?

[Zelandakh]

This is probably not what you were looking for but since you asked...My preferred method is to immediately raise with any 4 card support and to relay with any invitational or better and 3 card support. Weak hands make a direct raise whether with 3 or 4 card support. In full:-

1S
==
1N = INV+ relay
2S = weak raise
2N = mini-splinter or "in-between" splinter
3C = GF raise, system equivalent of Jacoby
3D = invitational raise unsuitable for splinter
3H = mixed raise
3S/4S = preemptive
3N = void splinter (any suit)
4m/H = singleton splinter

After 1S - 1N
=============
2C = any min without 4 hearts (now 2S = 3 card limit raise; 3S is GF raise; and 2D is GF relay)
2D = 4 hearts (now 2S = 3 card limit raise; 3S is GF raise; and 2H is GF relay)
2H and up = max (GF) without 4 hearts (now next step is a relay and min spades is usually setting trumps (relay break rules apply)

[Free]

I haven't had much problems bidding 1NT with weak raises (for me something like 5-7HCP). These hands just don't want to encourage partner to bid to 3-level even with some extras. Note that I have never seen such a hand which would improve after a 2♦ rebid by opener. The sequence 1M-1NT-2x-3M is usually reserved for invitational hands with 3M support (forcing 1NT).

Gazzilli fits perfectly with this approach, perhaps that's one of the reasons I haven't had much problems. After opener's 2♣ rebid, responder bids 2♠ showing <8HCP with 2-3♠. If opener is really strong now, he has another turn to bid and responder can bid 3♠ showing his 3 card support.

I'm not a fan of using the 2M-1 bid as natural or weak raise, it gets complicated when you both have a strong hand.

[affe82]

In strong club setting we play:

1Nt=max 2c support
2c=inv+ relay= minor/minors/bal gf: asking
2d=hearts inv+
2h=3c inv+ raise, can switch to slam try with 3-6 hands and play in responders suit
2S=weak raise
2N=jacoby
3c= exactly inv (around 7-8 losers) 55 in minors (usually 0-1 spade, can be xx)
3d=unspecified shortness spade-support, exactly inv.
3h=strong jumpshift nat. slamgoing.
3s=preemptive
4X=void: weak (about 5card sup, shortness and an A) or strong (moving against minimum for 5-level)

works pretty well and not too hard to remember.

[hrothgar]

Playing MOSCITO (which is a 4 card major based system and uses transfer openings)

4♠ = "to play"
4♥ = Splinter
4♦ = Splinter
4♣ = Splinter
3N = "to play" (occasionally conceals a preemptive spade raise)
3♠ = value raise (4-5 card spade support)
3♥ = 6 hearts and 3 spades, non forcing
3♦ = 6 diamonds and 3 spades, non forcing
3♣ = 6 clubs and 3 spades, non forcing
2N = limit raise+
2♠ = 3 card support, non forcing
2♥ = NNF (natural, non forcing)
2♦ = NNF
2♣ = NNF
1N = NNF
1♠ = game invite+ relay

[Vampyr]

I play:
1♠-2♠= weakish with support
1♠-1NT = weakish without support

Works OK.

[gnasher]

2♣ = clubs game-forcing, diamonds game-forcing, balanced invitation without 3-card support, or balanced game-force
2♦ = hearts, invitational +
2♥ = 3-card raise, weak or invitational
2♠ = 3-card raise, constructive
2NT = invitational+ 4-card raise
3♣/♦/♥ = one-suited invitation

Playing standard wide-range openings, it's quite hard to get the 2♣ response to work. Our life is a bit easier because the opening bid excludes a minimum major two-suiter.

The 2♥ raise looks like a weak point too, because it lets them in safely with a double that doesn't commit to anything. However, we haven't yet had any bad results from this.

[FrancesHinden]

wclass___, on 2011-September-08, 02:07, said:

It is interesting for me how different systems handle spade raises.

Many pairs play that 1♠-1NT can be made with weakish hand and 3 card support making 1♠-2♠ more like invitational. It does have some advantages like 1♠-1N-2♦-3♠ (weakish raise that improved from ♦ rebid) or making for opponents hard to judge how much to bid if at all.

However if we end up in ♠ after 1♠-1N-2♦ start it will be more easy for opponents to defend and if opps bid something responders concealed fit might make it hard for opener to judge whether to compete or not. etc.

Clearly 1♠-1NT with 3 card support isn't too bad, but frequency of these hands are really high so even a small loss is a loss.

System ''ambra'' uses 1♠-2♥ as ♦ GF or weak ♠ raise.

Which is your preferred approach and how would you rate these?

It's not normal to play that 1S-1NT-2D-3S is a weakish raise that has been improved - rather this is the normal way of bidding a limit raise in a 2/1 (semi-)forcing NT system. If you are playing 1S - 1NT to include weak spade raises, these are usually hands that are not interested in game opposite 18-19 balanced, never mind opposite a non-forcing 2D bid. Similarly you aren't worried about the 'concealed fit' because you aren't interested in having partner compete. Hence 1S - 1NT is quite rare with 3-card support, because when you are very weak either RHO has already bid, or partner has a strong hand and you want to slow the auction down; it's only when LHO is about to act that you would prefer to have done something else.

[whereagles]

wclass___, on 2011-September-08, 02:07, said:

Which is your preferred approach and how would you rate these?

I rate any system that bids 1S-1NT on shapely hands with support as "wrong". Why? Because if LHO acts and RHO raises, you're pretty much in the dark as to whether to bid 3S or not. This isn't a moot point: it caused me a bunch of imps already.

1S-1NT should only be bid on weak hands with support if it's like a 4333 or something, i.e. a hand that definitely does not want to bid 3S if things get hot. If the hand is shapely, just raise to 2S and improve your trial bid structure. Mixed raises, for instance, are a very nice tool for this purpose.