[Vampyr]

Splinters take up a lot of room, so I prefer to define them very strictly. I like to play that a splinter shows 3 or 4 controls (K=1, A=2) and few if any minor honours.

This hand has only 2 controls, and also has a lot more HCP on the side than a minimum splinter in my style. Splinters are useful in finding thin, well-fitting slams -- queens and jacks in the side suits are likely to be irrelevant.

Anyway, this looks like a good hand for 2/1 GF, because you can show your clubs and agree spades at a low level. I think that this is the best approach.

[richrf]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the comments so far. I have learned a lot from the comments. I didn't even know about splinters before this discussion! Knowing about splinters, I can see that there are some options which I should consider in the future ... assuming my partner also plays splinters. I will also have to read up on the 2NT option.

Thanks again, and I appreciate any further comments.

Rich

P.S. I will remember in the future to put the hand in standard sequence, but I am sort of a novice so I may slip up now and then. Please accept my apologies if I make any mistakes.

[semeai]

 richrf, on 2011-September-01, 20:34, said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the comments so far. I have learned a lot from the comments. I didn't even know about splinters before this discussion! Knowing about splinters, I can see that there are some options which I should consider in the future ... assuming my partner also plays splinters. I will also have to read up on the 2NT option.

Thanks again, and I appreciate any further comments.

Rich

P.S. I will remember in the future to put the hand in standard sequence, but I am sort of a novice so I may slip up now and then. Please accept my apologies if I make any mistakes.

To help your searches: The 2NT bid is called Jacoby 2NT and, if agreed that you're using this convention (many online will without comment, and it is part of the SAYC system most play), it shows a game forcing raise over a 1 of a major opening. There are specific responses that are standard that I'll leave you to find if/when you look up the convention.

If you play neither splinters nor Jacoby 2NT, that's fine and you can just bid 2C and then raise spades on this hand. As we've seen many prefer this with this hand even playing those conventions because the club suit is notable in addition to the support.

[jdeegan]

2♣ for me. Bidding game in spades is for sure. Slam is possible, but I need to elicit pard's opinion and find out more about what he has. My hand is heaven or hell. It is very soft but might have a ton of playing tricks opposite the right holding. Pard needs controls and either a ♥ suit or a ♣ fit.
Axxxx
Kxxx
Axx
A
is only a king better than a min, but enough for a near laydown six. If it comes up, I might even be able to splinter later.

You presented a very interesting hand. IMO and those of its inventors a 4♦ splinter should be what is called a 'picture' bid. Like Goldilocks' porridge it's not too weak and not too strong, and it's major feature is it's singleton. Most of the time it is 4-4-4-1 shape, but it can be 5-4-3-1 if the 5 bagger is weak. You probably shouldn't do it with a void or less than four trumps because you are telling pard to discount any cards in the splinter suit other than the ace.
The Jacoby 2NT is an excellent convention which I had a hand in helping Jake invent. It normally shows 4 trumps after a major suit opening, and it forces to game and is unlimited on the upside. There are a myriad of very good bidding systems you can use to continue after the 2NT bid. I recommend you and your regular partners start with something simple. The simplest good system is as follows over, say, 1♠-Pass-2NT-Pass-???:
4♠ shows a weak opener with no singleton or void
3 ♣, ♦, or ♥ shows a singleton or void in that suit
3♠ shows no singleton or void and at least a King better than a minimum
4 ♣, ♦ or ♥ shows a second 5 card suit
4 NT asks for aces or is Roman Key Card Blackwood

[Free]

 mikeh, on 2011-September-01, 14:52, said:

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-September-01, 13:57, said:

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?
1S - 3D!

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?

He's just looking for some lurpoa upvotes... So are you apparently

[whereagles]

 aguahombre, on 2011-September-01, 11:00, said:

I don't understand the reasoning. If you have crud in one rounded suit, and a lengthy trick source in the other, how does that favor splintering rather than bidding the suit you have length in? Just asking.

Because, in my opinion, the hand looks closer to

KQxx
QJx
x
KJxxx

which would be a pretty normal splinter, than to

KQxx
xx
x
AKxxxx

your typical "2C+4S rebid" type of hand.

[mike777]

 whereagles, on 2011-September-02, 05:29, said:

Because, in my opinion, the hand looks closer to

KQxx
QJx
x
KJxxx

which would be a pretty normal splinter, than to

KQxx
xx
x
AKxxxx

your typical "2C+4S rebid" type of hand.

I dont understand your question.

these hands are not close at all.

----


I do think the OP hand is close to 4d splinter but I prefer 2nt but close but I understand many prefer 2c.

[mcphee]

I just want to TELL my partner about a source of tricks after establishing a GF. The players who want to use a splinter need to appreciate a source of tricks is often the key to slam. I consider this hand a prime candidate for slam.

The jacoby bidders seem to be from the group that says," HEY, tell me I know what to do next honest". I do not at all share their confidence.

Remember the bidding is about asking and telling.

[mike777]

 mcphee, on 2011-September-02, 05:46, said:

I just want to TELL my partner about a source of tricks after establishing a GF. The players who want to use a splinter need to appreciate a source of tricks is often the key to slam. I consider this hand a prime candidate for slam.

The jacoby bidders seem to be from the group that says," HEY, tell me I know what to do next honest". I do not at all share their confidence.

Remember the bidding is about asking and telling.

First of all I think these choices are very close.....and your choice may be winning

2nt in fact tells....I have a slam hand and asks.....tell me more

2c does not tell that or ask that ....at that point........

[phil_20686]

A splinter should carry the message that all cards outside the splinter suit are useful. While this would be wrong with two low in teh heart suit and long clubs, when you have the QJ in the heart suit it is ok, since partner will be evaulating the A/K of hearts correctly. You would be happy in slam opposite Axxxx Axx xx Axx, or any hand that is rich in keycards really. The danger is that you are short a keycard, and may become committed to the five level when it is not completely safe. Splinter is my choice, but I play them more like 10-14 anyway.

[jschafer]

I am going for the splinter because that is how I want my partner to evaluate his hand for slam purposes.

[whereagles]

 mcphee, on 2011-September-02, 05:46, said:

Remember the bidding is about asking and telling.

Yes, but not only. It's also about making decisions. Your bid should, along with asking/telling, consider how it will impact on the decision-making.

[richrf]

 semeai, on 2011-September-01, 20:52, said:

To help your searches: The 2NT bid is called Jacoby 2NT and, if agreed that you're using this convention (many online will without comment, and it is part of the SAYC system most play), it shows a game forcing raise over a 1 of a major opening. There are specific responses that are standard that I'll leave you to find if/when you look up the convention.

If you play neither splinters nor Jacoby 2NT, that's fine and you can just bid 2C and then raise spades on this hand. As we've seen many prefer this with this hand even playing those conventions because the club suit is notable in addition to the support.

Thanks much. Yes, I checked out the Jacoby 2NT. It seems very handy and I will study it further to incorporate it into my SAYC bidding.

[whereagles]

Warning: J2NT standard follow-ups are horrible. Check the net for Martel's scheme instead.

[richrf]

 jdeegan, on 2011-September-02, 02:39, said:

2♣ for me. Bidding game in spades is for sure. Slam is possible, but I need to elicit pard's opinion and find out more about what he has. My hand is heaven or hell. It is very soft but might have a ton of playing tricks opposite the right holding. Pard needs controls and either a ♥ suit or a ♣ fit.
Axxxx
Kxxx
Axx
A
is only a king better than a min, but enough for a near laydown six. If it comes up, I might even be able to splinter later.

You presented a very interesting hand. IMO and those of its inventors a 4♦ splinter should be what is called a 'picture' bid. Like Goldilocks' porridge it's not too weak and not too strong, and it's major feature is it's singleton. Most of the time it is 4-4-4-1 shape, but it can be 5-4-3-1 if the 5 bagger is weak. You probably shouldn't do it with a void or less than four trumps because you are telling pard to discount any cards in the splinter suit other than the ace.
The Jacoby 2NT is an excellent convention which I had a hand in helping Jake invent. It normally shows 4 trumps after a major suit opening, and it forces to game and is unlimited on the upside. There are a myriad of very good bidding systems you can use to continue after the 2NT bid. I recommend you and your regular partners start with something simple. The simplest good system is as follows over, say, 1♠-Pass-2NT-Pass-???:
4♠ shows a weak opener with no singleton or void
3 ♣, ♦, or ♥ shows a singleton or void in that suit
3♠ shows no singleton or void and at least a King better than a minimum
4 ♣, ♦ or ♥ shows a second 5 card suit
4 NT asks for aces or is Roman Key Card Blackwood

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I will study your recommendation for J2NT

[richrf]

 whereagles, on 2011-September-02, 14:29, said:

Warning: J2NT standard follow-ups are horrible. Check the net for Martel's scheme instead.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it further.

Rich

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 Free, on 2011-September-02, 04:06, said:

He's just looking for some lurpoa upvotes... So are you apparently

You betcha !

She has me up to only one behind Aquahombre !

[neilkaz]

Great question here and my slight preference is to show the ♣ since I have 6 of them and want fitting honors rather than taking up lots of space with an immediate splinter. I'd not criticize either action. I clearly prefer to not use J2NT here.

[mike777]

 whereagles, on 2011-September-02, 14:29, said:

Warning: J2NT standard follow-ups are horrible. Check the net for Martel's scheme instead.

ditto

[ggwhiz]

 whereagles, on 2011-September-02, 14:29, said:

Warning: J2NT standard follow-ups are horrible. Check the net for Martel's scheme instead.

100%. I voted for 2nt but only because of agreed follow ups with my pard that are more comfortable for us than the standard.

Splinters are fine too IF you also have agreements that suit you, ie. we don't splinter on stiff Ace or King and use 2nt on some weaker hands control wise.

2 clubs could work and all 3 bids have substantial merit.