[jillybean]

You are playing 2/1 & kickback, partner opens 2nd seat and you hold A2 AJT3 6 QJT976

(P) 1♦ (3♠) X
(P) 4♠

Do you have any agreement as to what 4♠ is here?

[paulg]

Big hand, unspecific, hope nothing bad happens in the rest of the auction.

The only thing I am sure of is that this is not kickback.

[mikeh]

Kickback doesn't, imo, enter into it.

The odd thing about this auction is that LHO didn't bid 4♠...I can't think of any hand consistent with 4♠ where LHO doesn't have at least 3 spades.

Partner has a mountain...a hand too good to risk making a call you might pass. I don't think you can infer anything beyond that. Your job to is make as descriptive and as economical call as you can....and those parameters may be in conflict.

You have a good hand in context. The stiff diamond is worrisome but, given everything else you hold, if he holds a diamond one-suiter, they will be very strong.

I think we have a slam. The questions are: which slam, is it a grand, and how do we get there?

I think I will risk 5♣....I don't expect partner to pass. If he has a diamond one-suiter, he will bid 5♦. If he has hearts, he will bid 5♥.

I will bid 5♠ over either of these bids. This should show 1st round control, at least 5 clubs and 4 hearts (for the double, altho I suppose there would be hands on which I might double 3♠ lacking 4♥s, but partner should play me for 4 anyway), and since he is looking at short spades and 4th chair didn't raise, he won't play me for short spades. Thus he should be able to work out that while I have a good hand, I am short in diamonds.

I am hoping for something like x KQxx AKxx AKxx.....or x Kx AKQ109xx AKx...these are merely examples of two common hand-types for 4♠, and aren't intended to suggest he has to have something that looks like these.

If you think that 5♣ is passable, then you should imo bid 5♠. The problem with 5♠ is that you haven't yet described much of your shape...you show your control but partner won't be bidding 6♣ with the second example hand, and I suspect the partnership will end up guessing on level as well as denomination...you've got no bid left after he bids 6red.

[Phil]

Why do I feel that playing some of these conventions is like handing a circular saw to a toddler?

4♠ is not kickback. It just shows a good hand.

[mgoetze]

My personal recommendation would be to make good definitions of when kickback is on, and any auction not matching that definition doesn't have kickback. You seem to have the opposite approach - any bid that might just maybe possibly be kickback is immediately suspected of being kickback - and I think that approach is likely to get you into trouble on occasion.

[Hanoi5]

If you're playing with a creative partner it might be KB for hearts. But I think kickback is just for minors so maybe it's exclusion?

I suppose you just gotta have a long talk with your partner...

[pooltuna]

just call 6♣ and let your partner make an intelligent guess

[jillybean]

The bidding continued...

(P) 1♦ (3♠) X
(P) 4♠ (P) 5♣ (clubs)
(P) 6♣

Partner held V, Q842, AKT9xx, AKx, tyvm.

My partner agrees with everyone that 4♠ should not be kickback. I think we have reasonable agreements
when kickback applies but these hands where 4x could be kickback keep coming up and leave me wondering.

[mikeh]

Hanoi5, on 2011-August-17, 11:18, said:

If you're playing with a creative partner it might be KB for hearts. But I think kickback is just for minors so maybe it's exclusion?

I suppose you just gotta have a long talk with your partner...

kickback definitely involves hearts as well as the minors. I am never too sure I understand all of the terminology, but my understanding is that the version of keycard that is limited to the minors is when 4minor is keycard and that is usually referred to as minorwood.

For what it is worth (not much) I think minorwood is a terrible convention, but that kickback, tho not perfect, is a very powerful convention.

However, as with all gadgets, the partnership needs to define when it is used. I strongly recommend that the default rule is that a bid is NOT conventional unless it has been agreed that it is. Thus, absent (an unusual) agreement that 4♠ was kickback, it should be clear that it isn't. This rule makes life relatively easy...assuming you can remember your express agreements, you default to a 'bridge logic' meaning when in doubt. Here, the bridge logic of 4♠, when no convention is in play, is 'short with a huge hand'.

[mgoetze]

mikeh, on 2011-August-17, 16:09, said:

kickback definitely involves hearts as well as the minors. I am never too sure I understand all of the terminology, but my understanding is that the version of keycard that is limited to the minors is when 4minor is keycard and that is usually referred to as minorwood.

Here is my understanding:

Kickback means 4x+1 is keycard whenever x is trump.
Minorwood means 4m is keycard whenever m is trump.
Redwood means 4m+1 is keycard whenever m is trump, but 4NT is keycard for hearts.

Hm, Wikipedia seems to agree with me, too.

[nigel_k]

My understanding of Kickback has always been that Kickback replaces 4NT RKCB, and only ever applies to the suit that 4NT RKCB would have applied to.

If 4NT would ordinarily have been RKCB for hearts, then 4♠ is Kickback and 4NT is a spade cue bid. Otherwise 4♠ retains its normal meaning. Obviously the latter is correct in this auction.

Kickback doesn't set trumps by implication, unless 4NT RKCB would also have agreed the same trump suit.