[aguahombre]

semeai, on 2011-August-20, 08:12, said:

2C then 4H which must just be a mild slam try, though I've never seen it defined.

The interesting thing about one-way NMF, which establishes min/max early, is that when opener shows max (say without 3 hearts), game is committed so that 3H can set trumps for slam saving a level. Without such interest, responder would have bid 4H a long time ago holding 6 of them ---or 3H with invite only on the second round.

[semeai]

Phil, on 2011-August-20, 10:50, said:

I think its reasonable in this particular auction to play friv/ser. You could say that when we have found an 8 card fit that the friv/ser rules apply.

Better yet, why don't we just extend transfers?? 2N (over 1N) is commonly played as a relay to 3♣ so why not extend it out so that 3♦= hearts. You could stipulate rules about what it means when opener accepts or not in this context.

This sounds interesting. You lose a bit of differentiation with the club slam tries for an extra step with the other slam tries. If you're going to give up 3C for artificial gadgets, you might find other uses, though. A random one that sounds ill-advised but also appealing: a slam points or control points ask, with some sort of scanning to follow, for hands not caring about distribution (you could instead do a full relay after 2D, but you won't find out about high cards this low).

aguahombre, on 2011-August-20, 10:59, said:

The interesting thing about one-way NMF, which establishes min/max early, is that when opener shows max (say without 3 hearts), game is committed so that 3H can set trumps for slam saving a level. Without such interest, responder would have bid 4H a long time ago holding 6 of them ---or 3H with invite only on the second round.

Right. You have to play a style where the max with 2 hearts doesn't bid above 3H, though. For example, there's the natural-but-wasteful style of bidding 2M/2N with a min and 3M/3N with a max over 1C-1H;1N-2D (here with 1D as the opener, you can bid 2D/2M or 2N/3M). Do you always bid 3m with a max with 2 hearts in that auction, either artificially ot ostensibly natually? There's also 1m-1H;1N-2om;3S to worry about if you bypass 4 spades.

[aguahombre]

2NT=max...fourth suit is min without five diamonds, 2D is min with five diamonds. Having four diamonds is already a given. Spade fit is already out of the question with the 1NT rebid.

[Phil]

semeai, on 2011-August-20, 11:59, said:

This sounds interesting. You lose a bit of differentiation with the club slam tries for an extra step with the other slam tries.

Well, in one of the popular versions of xyNT or xyz:

1♣ - 1M - 1N - 3♣ is GF, and ostensibly shows 5-5, however,

1♣ - 1M - 1N - 2N (puppets to) 3♣ and then a new suit is frequently played as shortness with club support.

so I do not think you are really giving up much if you play transfers here.

What I am unclear about is what it means when opener accepts the transfer. Here's one suggestion:

1♦ - 1♥
1N - 3♦*

3♥ - non-serious slam try (minimum, but good controls perhaps).
3♠/4♣/4♦ - serious slam tries (in context)
3N - poor controls, strong preference for 3N; does not deny extra values.
4♥ - I hate my hand, lousy controls, but bad for 3N too. "You're on your own".

I don't think it matters if opener opens 1♦ by the way. The sequences should function the same.

[semeai]

aguahombre, on 2011-August-20, 12:11, said:

2NT=max...fourth suit is min without five diamonds, 2D is min with five diamonds. Having four diamonds is already a given. Spade fit is already out of the question with the 1NT rebid.

Thanks. A decent way to play, it sounds.

Phil, on 2011-August-20, 12:53, said:

Well, in one of the popular versions of xyNT or xyz:

1♣ - 1M - 1N - 3♣ is GF, and ostensibly shows 5-5, however,

1♣ - 1M - 1N - 2N (puppets to) 3♣ and then a new suit is frequently played as shortness with club support.

so I do not think you are really giving up much if you play transfers here.

on e.g. Gavin Wolpert's blog http://bridgepro.blo...or-forcing.html he has 3m show 5-5 I assume, and uses steps over 2N-3C to show 5M-4m or 4M-5m with high or low shortness. You could put some of these together or inside 2D, but you are giving up something.

Quote

What I am unclear about is what it means when opener accepts the transfer. Here's one suggestion:

1♦ - 1♥
1N - 3♦*

3♥ - non-serious slam try (minimum, but good controls perhaps).
3♠/4♣/4♦ - serious slam tries (in context)
3N - poor controls, strong preference for 3N; does not deny extra values.
4♥ - I hate my hand, lousy controls, but bad for 3N too. "You're on your own".

I don't think it matters if opener opens 1♦ by the way. The sequences should function the same.

This sounds decent. You're gaining the 3N bid or the frivolous bid, depending on your original preference. The gain of the step for the 5-5 hands will be more significant, perhaps.

For example, over 1C-1S;1N;3C = 5-5 spades diamonds

3D: modest hand with diamond support
3S: agrees hearts (3N now friv/ser)
Cue: good hand with diamond support
3N: suggests notrump

Alternatively, use 3D and 3H as diamond support with concentration in clubs and hearts respectively, getting you both "concentration" bids below 3NT.

I'm not sure it's worth losing the definition in slam tries & choice of games with partner's minor, though.

[phil_20686]

I have always used the 3H bid over 1N rebid as a slam try with a good heart suit. I prefer the 3H rebid to be no trump honour, and a cue to be compulsory with a trump honour. You can make a slam try with a worse suit by going through GF checkback, e.g. 1c-1h-1n-2d-2h/2s/2n-3h is always 6H in a poorish suit for me.

Obviously it is kind of slammish over 2H.

I also play that 3s/4c/4d over 1N are auto splinters (although sometimes I play a picture jump in partners suit if we are playing 555(4)2, and partner did not open a club. This obviously depends on your style of NT rebids too. I tend not to ever rebid with a singleton in partners suit, to tighten up these auctions.