[nige1]

ArtK78, on 2011-August-10, 10:19, said:

While no one has commented on this statement, I thought I would point out that the poster is using the term "controlled psyche" incorrectly. Actually, the term is "psychic control," not controlled psyche. The term "psychic control" comes from Roth-Stone, in which there were systemic psyches and specified responses to determine whether partner had psyched. For example, opener was required systemically to open one of a major on 3-6 HCP and 4 or more in the suit (it may have been 5 or more in the suit - I don't remember). A 2NT response to a 1 of a major opening showed 22-24 HCP and was forcing on a psychic opening bid. The 2NT bid is a psychic control. Psychic controls are no longer allowed.

Yet another quibble: I don't think psychic controls or controlled psychs are defined or even mentioned in the laws. I believe restrictions are a matter of local regulation

[hrothgar]

nige1, on 2011-August-10, 10:50, said:

Yet another quibble: I don't think psychic controls or controlled psychs are defined or even mentioned in the laws. I believe restrictions are a matter of local regulation

Nor is the expression "card", and yet people know what it means...

Bridge, like many activities requires basic situational fluency.
Art provided a simple, accurate explanation.
Learn what this expression means.

[nige1]

campboy, on 2011-August-10, 10:29, said:

for those who don't want to look it up: the three laws referred to are about unauthorised information, insufficient bids and penalty cards respectively.]

Thank you, campboy. I suppose that Law 31 about calls out of rotation may also be relevant.

[whereagles]

On empty, statistics seem to support a 2♠ bid: pard's expectancy should be around 8-9 hcp with 2-3 spades.

[barmar]

ArtK78, on 2011-August-10, 10:19, said:

While no one has commented on this statement, I thought I would point out that the poster is using the term "controlled psyche" incorrectly. Actually, the term is "psychic control," not controlled psyche.

The term "psychic control" comes from Roth-Stone, in which there were systemic psyches and specified responses to determine whether partner had psyched. For example, opener was required systemically to open one of a major on 3-6 HCP and 4 or more in the suit (it may have been 5 or more in the suit - I don't remember). A 2NT response to a 1 of a major opening showed 22-24 HCP and was forcing on a psychic opening bid. The 2NT bid is a psychic control.

Psychic controls are no longer allowed.

A "systemic psyche" is an oxymoron. A psyche is defined to be a gross deviation from agreements. If your system requires you to bid like that, it's not a deviation, let a lone "gross".

When it's used in a context like that, players apparently intend "psyche" to mean "deviation from common agreements" (in R-S's case, the usual HCP requirements for an opening bid) rather than "deviation from our agreements".

[ArtK78]

barmar, on 2011-August-11, 11:17, said:

A "systemic psyche" is an oxymoron. A psyche is defined to be a gross deviation from agreements. If your system requires you to bid like that, it's not a deviation, let a lone "gross".

When it's used in a context like that, players apparently intend "psyche" to mean "deviation from common agreements" (in R-S's case, the usual HCP requirements for an opening bid) rather than "deviation from our agreements".

I agree.

However, the use of the term "psychic bid" was different in the 1950s (and earlier) than it is today. Perhaps a better term would be "Systemic light opening" but, nevertheless, those bids were referred to as psyches. Hence the term "Psychic controls" was used for bids meant to systemically deal with the systemic psyches.

[nige1]

Although the law-book makes no mention of controlled psychs, some local legislatures implement regulations to discourage them. For example

EBU Orange Book 10, Section 10 A 5 said:

No agreement is permitted whose sole effect, or one of whose main effects, is to control psyches.

It is also a matter of local regulation whether different understandings are allowed after an infraction

TFLB, L40 C 3 said:

The Regulating Authority may disallow prior agreement by a partnership to vary its understandings during the auction or play following a question asked, a response to a question, or any irregularity.

[aguahombre]

nige1, on 2011-August-11, 13:25, said:

Although the law-book makes no mention of controlled psychs, some local legislatures have implemented regulations to prevent them. For example Again, it is a matter of local regulation whether you are allowed different understandings after an infraction

I am confused by references to understandings and agreements; one player must pass throughout. What's to agree upon or understand?

[Rossoneri]

Thanks for all the replies: I've created a new thread in the Laws forum regarding the actual case.