[flytoox]

white vs red

W N E S
1D DBL 2D ?

S: T98XX
H: JX
D: --
C: AK98XX

[1eyedjack]

3D. Let's see what that double was based on. Could be strong bal. Could be strong jump overcall in H. To leap in a black suit is premature at this stage, and you need a forcing bid. Could Double 2D, I guess, but partner may expect more in H.

[whereagles]

Not simple.. anything you do can turn out wrong, but I have an imaginative solution: bid 4D. Pard will take this to be some 55 in the majors, and over the expected 4H I bid 4S. Pard is gonna wiggle a bit, but in the end he'll probably figure out it's a 55 spade/club.

[luke warm]

in that case, why not just double? if pard bids hearts, pull to spades.. won't the same message be sent? the problem is, there could easily be a game somewhere... give pard Qx of clubs and a diamond stopper and nt might not be a bad bargain

[inquiry]

Another advertisement for misho's equality method...

There are two options.

Option 1.
you bid 2♠. Let me explain why. For his method 2♠ is either a balanced hand unsuitable for 3NT (you don't have that hand), or a hand with clubs. 2♠ is one round force.

Now the bidding will continue, and you will get to bid spades later. And if at the four level, obviously a bad five card suit. And when you show spades, you place empahsis on the quality of the club suit.

Option 2.
You bid 2♥, which, yes, shows ♠'s and is 1 RF. Then you can force by showing you clubs. The advantage of 2♥ is you get your spade suit (and length) across immediately, and you get your partner as declerer with a spade fit (no lead through his heart Kxxx of instance). But you will have trouble getting across the idea of long, good clubs, even when you bid them.

This give you chance to get 6C opposite... SAx HAKQx D-xxx C-Qxxx, and six spades opposite S-AKJx H-Axxx D-xxx C-QJ

Ben

[Fluffy]

I take that ♠ suit as 4 carder, therefore won´t bid it first, 3♣ looks like a good bid to me, I´ll rectify his strong ♥1-suiter to ♠ later if able to.

[paulhar]

1eyedjack, on Sep 24 2004, 04:48 PM, said:

Could Double 2D, I guess, but partner may expect more in H.

Problem with that is that pard with the double and bid NT hand with strong diamonds might sit for 2Dx.

Quote

Option 1.
you bid 2♠. Let me explain why. For his method 2♠ is either a balanced hand unsuitable for 3NT (you don't have that hand), or a hand with clubs. 2♠ is one round force.

How do you play 2S over 1D x 2D?

[inquiry]

paulhar, on Sep 25 2004, 04:28 PM, said:

Quote

Option 1.
you bid 2♠. Let me explain why. For his method 2♠ is either a balanced hand unsuitable for 3NT (you don't have that hand), or a hand with clubs. 2♠ is one round force.

How do you play 2S over 1D x 2D?

Exactly the same way....

If I have hearts, I double 2D
If I have spades, I bid 2H
If I am balanced and enough to bid on, I bid 2S
If I have clubs, I bid 2S also,
If I have five good hearts constructive hand, i bid 3C
If I have five good spades, constructive hand, I bid 3D

[the hog]

Playing normal, (not Misho's), methods, 2S and 3C are not forcing, so they are out as I am going to force to game on this hand.

I believe the best initial move here is a x. I don't accept Paul's scenario that pd will sit. There was no initial NT overcall, so if balanced partner can only have a hand of 19+. Based on my values and the bidding to date I doubt this is the case.

[flytoox]

Thanks all for your reply. Pd's hand:
S: AKQX
H: KXX
D: XXX
C: QJX


apparently, hold my hand, you wont stay below game. So the problem is how to explore slam possibility while not overbid. In the play, I choosed practical 4S. you can see I missed the slam.

Without much gardget, i think 4D should be the best choice. This should initally ask pd to pick a major. If pd bid 4H, you can convert to 4S, this should impliy slam interest. Otherwise why bother with 4D? If pd bid 4S, as he would here, then 5D should take you home.

Not sure this is right and more thoughts on how to reach slam are more than welcome.

Hongjun

[1eyedjack]

The_Hog, on Sep 25 2004, 09:21 PM, said:

Playing normal, (not Misho's), methods, 2S and 3C are not forcing, so they are out as I am going to force to game on this hand.

I think that there are some occasions when making a non-forcing bid on a hand theoretically worth forcing can be the lesser evil, particularly if the continuations are more under control when it is not passed out. A case in point is the popular abandonment of strong 2 openings. These days it is commonplace to open 1-suit on a hand that would be worth game opposite many 4-5 point responders that would pass, gambling that the hand will not be passed out (ie be rescued by opps if the worst case happened and responder passed).

It is possible that a non-forcing 3C may be a practical launching point for slam, the risk of course being that 3C might be passed out. I don't think that is the right move on this hand, but the mere fact that it is not forcing is not I think by itself a conclusive argument against the bid.

[han]

I agree. In fact, here it is very tempting to bid a non-forcing 3C. It seems that either partner has a very good hand, or they have loads of diamonds. In either case you should get another chance to bid.

Would probably not have worked out so well...

[Flame]

I was thinking of 3c too, but i think its wrong especially at this vul, we know there are maybe 80% that we belong in 4sp, so i would rather bet on it then bid a non forcing 3c . Double can get us into a better place but what are we going to do on 5D by the opponents ? i guess at this vul 5d wont happend too freqently , but on different vul you will here it alot with a void in diamond. So maybe double here, 4sp on other vul.

[laughter]

A standard strength showing cue of 3D worths more consideration.

As doubler may have some other plans in mind, and your hand is highly suitable for club, a jump to 4S may be premature.

Facing the actual doubling hand, the bidding may go:
3D-pass-3S-pass;
?
As you quite like your hand facing 4 spades, you can try for slam by choosing one of the following bids:

1.4D - agreeing spades, showing slam interest, and leaving the rest to partner.

2.4C - forcing, first suggests real suit and no spades fit, can catch up by jumping to 5S later.

3. 5D - EKB or void-showing splinter, partnership should have some agreement on how to continue.

I guess 2. will lead to a small slam as doubler has the right holding in black suits.