[Flem72]

OK, bear with me, I grew up on weak NTs where this auction is nicely defined (usually) as 15-17 support points. When I was forced into SNT systems, I often had problems with invitational range (in my mind good 15-18 support) hands with distribution. Say, 14 HCP and a stiff. Casual partners -- even some very experienced ones -- would say, 'oh no, that's a 2M raise. You only have 14 points." Swell:

\ \ \ \ / / / /
\ \ \\ /// / /
0 0
7
|------/

This got to be such a problem for me that I started asking my casual SNT partners -- BTW, these would be partners you meet 30 mins before the game in order to work out a card -- what range this sequence could have, and the answers were surprisingly vague. It was almost like they were resulting before the fact: If the stronger 2M would keep them out of trouble, it was OK to use it, but if they got too high with the weaker one, it was bad.

So my question is this: Do many of you SNTers, whether 2/1 or SAYC, really bid hands like this

AQxx
x
KQx
KTxxx

as a 2S raise after 1m-1S? If you do, how do you handle the rest of the auction in various circumstances? I can think of a couple of structures that would seem possibly to work, but something about the wide range for the raise (12-17 support?) rubs against the grain. I guess I could insist on mini-splinters or other fairly complicated game tries with everyone I play with wherever I might find them, but then again maybe I need my outlook adjusted.

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[awm]

My approach is that the single raise should encompass all fitting weak notrump hands (even really good ones with 14 hcp and a side doubleton) but nothing stronger than that. This means 14 with a singleton (and sometimes 13 with a singelton) is a jump raise. In terms of points, the single raise is about 12-15, the double raise is about 16-18, and with 19+ I would force game. This is counting shape, so most 18-19 balanced hands with a fit are forcing game (exception for a really bad 18).

I'm aware that some people use a wider single-raise range and make a jump raise with most 18-19 balanced hands. For me this seems like too wide a range for the single raise, but it's perhaps more workable if you also play that the single raise is a virtual guarantee of four-card support (allowing partner to make game tries on very mediocre hands containing a five-card suit).

[MrAce]

I do the same as Awm. This hand is jump raise for me.

[Siegmund]

A jump raise here too. I am more a believer in the LTC than a lot of people on the forum. But there are a lot of distributional 14s that I treat as jump raises.

If your hand is more than a full trick better than the worst hand you could have for the single raise, you need to be taking a stronger action. And in the strong-NT world, this means the 3M raise includes relatively few semibalanced 15-17s, and relatively many distributional 14s and hideous 4333 18-19s.

[fromageGB]

I play strong NT but the implications of this sequence for me are different, as I play a balanced 1♣ and an unbalanced 1♦, the latter having a singleton or void outside diamonds, or has 6 diamonds. So with the given 14 hcp hand I open 1♦, and when I raise 1♠ to 2♠ I am already defining a pretty good hand. I am guaranteeing a shortage and ruffing values. Responder will only pass out if minimum.

For me this marks the boundary of the single raise. Turn one of the little clubs into a Jack and I jump to 3.

[fromageGB]

fromageGB, on 2011-August-01, 09:35, said:

...Responder will only pass out if minimum.

As you asked for continuations, I should add that over 2♠, a 2NT from responder would ask for the shortage. This can lead to low point count games.

[[ response to 2NT over 2M agreement : 3♣ = shortage, 3♦ = shortage in other major (cannot be short in diamonds)]]

[Yu18772]

What awm said, although i game force with practically any 18 (at least 18 good enough not to consider them 17 and open as 1NT).
Another implication of strong NT is that the jump raise hand will more often than not include a singleton (balanced 15-17 and some semi-balanced would open 1NT),
and some play that 3NT after asks for single.....

[phil_20686]

Its very important to know in your style if you can raise 1M to 2M on 3 cards. This affects your jump raise structure. Particularly at MP it is often advantageous to raise on 3 cards in a wk nt, but this makes it yet more wide ranging.

Like the others I think that the given hand is a Jump raise.