[jillybean]

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MP, how will you bid this?

[MrAce]

jillybean, on 2011-July-30, 01:03, said:

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MP, how will you bid this?

Do u really want me to reply 3♠ and get my name in Cherdano's list ?

[Cyberyeti]

MrAce, on 2011-July-30, 01:32, said:

Do u really want me to reply 3♠ and get my name in Cherdano's list ?

This in standard-ish methods. I'm bidding game, ♥Kxxxx or KQxx and out is enough for it to be worth bidding, this is a huge hand.

If no splinter or other GF raise available, bid 4♥. Yes partner can have ♥xxxx and ♠KQxx, but you'll be in good company bidding game.

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-July-30, 02:37, said:

This in standard-ish methods. I'm bidding game, ♥Kxxxx or KQxx and out is enough for it to be worth bidding, this is a huge hand.

If no splinter or other GF raise available, bid 4♥. Yes partner can have ♥xxxx and ♠KQxx, but you'll be in good company bidding game.

Actually i was reffering to this, but now i see it is not Chardano's.

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-July-24, 07:34, said:

12) Mention "splinter" in the B & I Forum .

[the hog]

3S splinter. This hand is worth a game bid.

[ggwhiz]

If you don't play splinters you can reverse into 2♦ followed by 4♥ to map out short spades and let pard think about slam.

[1eyedjack]

If you are not playing splinters, 2D shouldn't get you into much trouble. Not stopping short of game.

[Cyberyeti]

ggwhiz, on 2011-July-30, 07:45, said:

If you don't play splinters you can reverse into 2♦ followed by 4♥ to map out short spades and let pard think about slam.

Unfortunately, partner will misassess the slam prospects, depending on how the auction goes maybe thinking you only have 3 hearts and also possibly thinking he's getting a discard when looking at ♦AQx. Either of these could be bad, but if you're lucky both will matter and they'll cancel out.

And MrAce, I guessed that was what you were referring to, and I was trying to say you got in before I made the same comment.

[daveharty]

The title of the thread would suggest uncertainty about how high you should be forcing with this hand, regardless of specific methods played. I would say it's a game forcing hand, but not a slam forcing hand, so bid appropriately: 3S if you play splinters (I'm really not sure how else you would play this bid, unless partner is so legitimately green that they have never heard of them), 4H otherwise. Of course that might stop you short of slam if partner is afraid of spade losers--but then you have a good reason to say to partner "Say, there's this thing called a 'splinter bid'..."

[1eyedjack]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-July-30, 08:35, said:

Unfortunately, partner will misassess the slam prospects, depending on how the auction goes maybe thinking you only have 3 hearts and also possibly thinking he's getting a discard when looking at ♦AQx. Either of these could be bad, but if you're lucky both will matter and they'll cancel out.

And MrAce, I guessed that was what you were referring to, and I was trying to say you got in before I made the same comment.

If partner has AQx of dias and expects a discard, then he should be pleasantly surpised to find a discard on the clubs instead.
It is true that partner may read you for 1-3-4-5 rather than 1-4-3-5, but when you insist on hearts after partner has perhaps not promised 5, it should be clarified.
2D reverse is a much cheaper bid than 3S splinter, and the Spade shortage will probably come to light via 2D.
Who knows, perhaps the possession of a 5th club will be of value to partner, which is rather more assured after 2D than after 3S.
Personally I see very little in it between the two options.

[aguahombre]

Not to worry that responder will think you only have 3 hearts for him. If you reverse, then jump support hearts, you have 4.

[ArtK78]

No doubt worth a game bid. So, if you play splinters, 3♠ is clear. Otherwise, a direct 4♥ is probably best unless you have an agreement that a direct game bid shows a distributional raise rather than a power raise.

[inquiry]

hand is worth forcing to game. How you do it is a matter of style. You might splinter (I would), but whatever you do, force to game.

[1eyedjack]

I think that an immediate 4H raise is very significantly inferior to 2D followed by 4H. The discrepancy in merit is greater than that between 2D and splinter 3S.

[jillybean]

Of course we are playing spinters, it's nonsense that B/I aren't or souldn't be playing splinters. I don't understand the 2♦, it would be better suggesting you take up splinters rather than a misdirected 2♦.

This was the full hand, making 6

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edit I was north here and regret not bidding 3♠/3♥ which would have propelled us to slam.

[matmat]

jillybean, on 2011-July-30, 14:02, said:

Of course we are playing spinters, it's nonsense that B/I aren't or souldn't be playing splinters. I don't understand the 2♦, it would be better suggesting you take up splinters rather than a misdirected 2♦.

This was the full hand, making 6

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If someone forcibly removes the 3♠ card from my bidding box, I will bid 4♥, not 3♥; with a source of tricks, four trump, and shortness I'm not giving partner the option to stop short of game.

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2011-July-30, 14:02, said:

Of course we are playing spinters, it's nonsense that B/I aren't or souldn't be playing splinters. I don't understand the 2♦, it would be better suggesting you take up splinters rather than a misdirected 2♦.

Would splinter on this hand. But with a stronger one (say same with AKX instead of KJX in diamonds), would do the reverse first. The idea of the "misdirected" 2D would be that a splinter has enough for game (here about 20 pts in support of hearts), while the other route would have about 20 real, plus the distribution value in spades.

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-30, 12:58, said:

Not to worry that responder will think you only have 3 hearts for him. If you reverse, then jump support hearts, you have 4.

Provided he hasn't done something awkward like bid hearts again, at which point you no longer need 4. If he has Kxxxxx and thinks you have 3, he may be worried about the missing Q, it may not be apparent to you he has the 6th one.

3♥ is an absurd undervaluing, are you really supposed to bid game with xxx, Kxxx, Qxx, xxx ?

3♠ is the bid unless you have other gadgets (we have a more obscure method to show a 1435/1426 GF via a GF unbalanced 2N rebid, immediate 3♠ would be a void for us).

[peachy]

jillybean, on 2011-July-30, 14:02, said:

Of course we are playing spinters, it's nonsense that B/I aren't or souldn't be playing splinters. I don't understand the 2♦, it would be better suggesting you take up splinters rather than a misdirected 2♦.

Rather feisty tone in your post.
I agree B/I "should" adopt splinters, one of the most useful and easy conventions. However, it is not something that majority of B/I players have on their card - this is my personal observation. The hand is clearly GF - had South been able to properly evaluate it as GF, he/she might have used splinter which is the obvious choice if splinters were on the card. So the problem is in hand evaluation by South.

[Cyberyeti]

peachy, on 2011-July-31, 04:47, said:

Rather feisty tone in your post.
I agree B/I "should" adopt splinters, one of the most useful and easy conventions. However, it is not something that majority of B/I players have on their card - this is my personal observation. The hand is clearly GF - had South been able to properly evaluate it as GF, he/she might have used splinter which is the obvious choice if splinters were on the card. So the problem is in hand evaluation by South.

I think it's part of the difference between B and I, I think most intermediate players adopt splinters fairly quickly. Agree with the final sentence.