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What is this double? TO or Penalty? ACBL

Poll: What is this double? TO or Penalty? (44 member(s) have cast votes)

What is this double?

  1. Takeout (4 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  2. Penalty (40 votes [90.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.91%

  3. something else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   dickiegera 

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Posted 2011-July-20, 14:56

Bidding goes 1♦-P-P-X
2♣-X

Is this Takeout or Penalty or something else?

My partner and I are asking.
Thank You
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-July-20, 15:21

When partner doubles one of the suits you have implied (here you imply some clubs by doubling diamonds), it is penalty. If he wanted to make a responsive double he would have to bid 2♦, showing both majors.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-July-20, 15:47

View Posthelene_t, on 2011-July-20, 15:21, said:

When partner doubles one of the suits you have implied (here you imply some clubs by doubling diamonds), it is penalty. If he wanted to make a responsive double he would have to bid 2♦, showing both majors.


You said it all imo.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

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#4 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-July-21, 00:05

View PostMrAce, on 2011-July-20, 15:47, said:

You said it all imo.





♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥



THEN, WHY SAY MORE ?
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-July-21, 00:15

View Posthelene_t, on 2011-July-20, 15:21, said:

When partner doubles one of the suits you have implied (here you imply some clubs by doubling diamonds), it is penalty. If he wanted to make a responsive double he would have to bid 2♦, showing both majors.


I doubt it. 2D would be natural for me. Anyway we do play this x as penalty.
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-July-21, 08:45

I play it as take out, i.e. responsive. 2♦ would be 13 or so with only one major.
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-July-21, 14:30

View PostLurpoa, on 2011-July-21, 00:05, said:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥



THEN, WHY SAY MORE ?





Lurpoa, Helene already explained, and i thought i was clear with my post which meant i agree with everything she said and i have nothing further to add, whether u agree with her opinion or not, i think she explained what does that DBL mean to her and why. What else do you want me to say when i already said "she said it all " ?

I mean i understand u are asking for polite answers and less sarcasm and all, which is fine, but don't you think it is being a little abusive to ask "WHY" each time, when the reason was ALREADY explained very well, regardless of you agree with it or not ? Please stop being childish, i could answer your all "WHY" questions by simply posting "WHY NOT", instead i am trying to be reasonable. You really need to stop this nonsense.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#8 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-July-21, 16:03

View PostMrAce, on 2011-July-21, 14:30, said:

Lurpoa, Helene already explained, and i thought i was clear with my post which meant i agree with everything she said and i have nothing further to add, whether u agree with her opinion or not, i think she explained what does that DBL mean to her and why. What else do you want me to say when i already said "she said it all " ?

I mean i understand u are asking for polite answers and less sarcasm and all, which is fine, but don't you think it is being a little abusive to ask "WHY" each time, when the reason was ALREADY explained very well, regardless of you agree with it or not ? Please stop being childish, i could answer your all "WHY" questions by simply posting "WHY NOT", instead i am trying to be reasonable. You really need to stop this nonsense.



♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥



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#9 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2011-July-24, 01:16

:P PENALTY FOOL. A responsive double in this position doesn't solve a real problem (2♦,or 3♣, or just bidding 2♥ with 4-4 in the majors and a moderate hand should suffice) whereas nailing the over-aggressive 5-5 opener for 800 or 1100 can be soooo..... sweet.
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#10 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-July-25, 04:19

T/O.

Low level X are for T/O, may not be best, but you avoid misunderstandings.
The X also showes a willingness to play 2Cx.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   qwery_hi 

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Posted 2011-July-25, 07:00

penalty, you can always make a TO (responsive or DSIP) dbl after the expected correction to 2D, and expected pass of 2D by partner.

View Postdickiegera, on 2011-July-20, 14:56, said:

Bidding goes 1♦-P-P-X
2♣-X

Is this Takeout or Penalty or something else?

My partner and I are asking.
Thank You

Alle Menschen werden bruder.

Where were you while we were getting high?
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-July-29, 03:59

Penalty, don't ask me why because it's already been explained very nicely by Helene.
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#13 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-July-29, 04:06

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-July-21, 08:45, said:

I play it as take out, i.e. responsive. 2♦ would be 13 or so with only one major.

With only one major you would have to be 4-2 as with 5 you would have overcalled. This leaves you with seven cards in the minors while p has implied some club length. I am very happy to double for penalties with such a hand. I suppose you could be (43)42 but then a cuebid(2♦) followed by 2NT (or raise if p hits the right major) would be an option. A penalty double is also an option.
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#14 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2011-August-01, 13:07

Penalty for me
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#15 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2011-August-02, 00:02

View Postdickiegera, on 2011-July-20, 14:56, said:

Bidding goes 1♦-P-P-X
2♣-X

Is this Takeout or Penalty or something else?

My partner and I are asking.
Thank You



It doesnt make a lot of sense to me to play 2♦ here as natural (and I am far from being an expert) - so if 2♦ is 100% take out, X is 100% penalty.
If 2♦ is to play, then X would be the only way to ask partner to choose a major (an option I think is pretty handy to have), so its really up to you.

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#16 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-August-02, 03:31

Stop it with the hearts! stop it with the hearts! no more hearts please!

♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣
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#17 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2011-August-02, 07:36

Very good response by Helen. But!

When the opponents correct back to ♦, how best to maintain communication?

Are subsequent doubles penalty? or something else. Are we in a force?
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#18 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2011-August-17, 05:27

AAARGH Particularly disappointed with this instance of upvoting when meaning to reply, because I think that Mr. Ace was purposely misunderstanding Lurpoa's post.

View PostMrAce, on 2011-July-21, 14:30, said:

it is being a little abusive to ask "WHY" each time, when the reason was ALREADY explained very well, regardless of you agree with it or not ? Please stop being childish, i could answer your all "WHY" questions by simply posting "WHY NOT", instead i am trying to be reasonable. You really need to stop this nonsense.


The question was why post a "me too" post, and you DIDN'T explain the answer at all or even give one. I think that Lurpoa has a point for once, because there is a poll (I don't know whether you noticed it) where you can register your opinion if you have nothing more to say.
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-August-17, 05:35

One reason would be to commend a fellow poster for a good explanation, when you feel like upvoting is not enough.
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#20 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-August-29, 11:57

I misread the auction in the poll

Penalties.
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