[Tataie]

---

teams
2♥ alerted as nonforcing
Playing with an expert friend .
He passed. Can you ever consider passing this because I cant.
Tx

[ArtK78]

Yes, I can imagine passing this.

(1) It appears that your partner is broke.
(2) No call seems right.

If you double again, partner is likely to bid diamonds. That could turn out quite poorly. Of course, if he does bid clubs, what do you do then? Pass? 4♣? 5♣? 3NT?

If you don't double, then I guess that the only other call available to you (other than pass) is 2NT. You are bidding 2NT into an auction in which both opponents are bidding with 5 cold tricks and no clue where a 6th is coming from.

On the other hand, if partner has as little as 9xxxx of clubs you are on a 2-2 club break for 8 tricks in NT. If he has something more, then 9 tricks could be available. So it certainly does not take much to make a game - it just takes the right nothing.

This hand is a real big headache. Passing may be wimpy, but it is not out of the question.

[Tataie]

2♥ being nonf can be even 1hp J10xxxx ♥ and nothing else.
You count your pd as have nothing..0..while even your left opp can be 0.
Whats 100% is you have by far the best hand at this table while Left Opp and pd are broke.
You can do 3nt with 5♣ and only a K in front >> 3hp while you are vuln and you must know what the frigging huge premium for games in vul and that you should play it starting from 40% chances.
On the other hand put your pd any 6-9 hand on which 3nt is cold and youll notice he just can move over 2♥ since your x can as good as 13 hp and he cant risk to get on 3rd level with less than 20 hcp in vulnerable.

[Bbradley62]

So, you're not really interested in hearing others' opinions, you're just looking for validation of your own?

[MrAce]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:26, said:

---

teams
2♥ alerted as nonforcing
Playing with an expert friend .
He passed. Can you ever consider passing this because I cant.
Tx

Assume RHO opened with a 9 count and responder has 6 hcp. Even then this gives pd with apprx 6 hcps. Possible at these colors.

-Lets give pd perfect hcps and shapes, x xxx Kxxxx QJxx, xx xx KJxxx QJxx , xx xx KQxxxx Jxx, x xxx Kxxx QJxxx ..... and assume he did not bid over 2♥ (some people would bid over 2♥)

-Some less perfect hcps, Qx Jx Kxxxx xxxx, Jx Qx Qxxxx Jxxx, xx Jxx KQxx xxxx

Now back to your question, you did not ask what we bid, you asked if we consider passing over 2♠ or not.

-If my pd is capable of bidding over 2♥ with those perfect hands i wld consider passing
-if my pd is capable of balancing when 2♠ goes to him/her i consider passing.

And this is EVEN IF opps opened and responded when our side has 25 hcps, which wont be the case each time.

[helene_t]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:45, said:

2♥ being nonf can be even 1hp J10xxxx ♥ and nothing else.

Really? I thought that consensus was that 2♥ is 7-11 or such.

I pass.

[gszes]

2n

fits my hand perfectly and there is a strong chance we can make it
with only a small amout of stuff from p. It seems anti % to assume
p has 5 little clubs and hope we can score 5 club tricks. Lets
just make a normal bid here (no reason to avoid it) and see if p
has enough power to raise us to 3n:))

My only concern is if it goes 2n p p x (enough reason to not have
my fingers crossed when i bid 2n) i admit i would probably run
from 2n and bid 3c.

[MrAce]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:45, said:

2♥ being nonf can be even 1hp J10xxxx ♥ and nothing else.

True, but he can also be as high as 8 hcp (some play even higher range)

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:45, said:

On the other hand put your pd any 6-9 hand on which 3nt is cold and youll notice he just can move over 2♥ since your x can as good as 13 hp and he cant risk to get on 3rd level with less than 20 hcp in vulnerable.

Is my pd xxhong ?? He/she beieves once u pass initially u shd never balance ?

Is my pd shy of bidding with 7-8-9 hcps and 5-6 card suit over 2♥ ? Even if he/she didnt, is he/she still shy of bidding over 2♠ ?

[kayin801]

MrAce, on 2011-July-18, 12:59, said:

-If my pd is capable of bidding over 2♥ with those perfect hands i wld consider passing
-if my pd is capable of balancing when 2♠ goes to him/her i consider passing.

Agree with this, especially the last one. Partner still has a chance to go, maybe LHO picked off his heart stack and/or he can still come back in.

We can't bid a suit and 2NT is an overbid, so if you're okay hearing 3♦ from partner then I suppose X is fine, otherwise you have to pass.

[Tataie]

OK..My bad.
Im not asking anymore if you consider passing or not.
Im asking what do you do.
Straight answer pls.
Mea culpa

[xxhong]

Easy pass for me.

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:26, said:

---

teams
2♥ alerted as nonforcing
Playing with an expert friend .
He passed. Can you ever consider passing this because I cant.
Tx

[P_Marlowe]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:45, said:

2♥ being nonf can be even 1hp J10xxxx ♥ and nothing else.
You count your pd as have nothing..0..while even your left opp can be 0.
Whats 100% is you have by far the best hand at this table while Left Opp and pd are broke.
You can do 3nt with 5♣ and only a K in front >> 3hp while you are vuln and you must know what the frigging huge premium for games in vul and that you should play it starting from 40% chances.
On the other hand put your pd any 6-9 hand on which 3nt is cold and youll notice he just can move over 2♥ since your x can as good as 13 hp and he cant risk to get on 3rd level with less than 20 hcp in vulnerable.

I doubt that a NF 2H bid will be very frequently made on average

J10xxxx ♥ and nothing else.

If you do this the price will be, that you kill your side constructive
bidding.
So if I find out, they do it, I am confident, that I will beat them in
the other boards.
And even if I give p 6HCP, p did hear my T/O? Did he bid?

I am passing taking my plus.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[MrAce]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 12:45, said:

You can do 3nt with 5♣ and only a K in front >> 3hp while you are vuln and you must know what the frigging huge premium for games in vul and that you should play it

I think this was a typo, we have the ♣ K in our hand.

Lets give him

Qx xx Qxxx QJxxx we are still not making 3 nt, no ? (We will eventually get to 3 NT with this anyway though even if we pass 2♠ and pd balances)

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 13:15, said:

OK..My bad.
Im not asking anymore if you consider passing or not.
Im asking what do you do.
Straight answer pls.
Mea culpa

Unless my pd is balancing disabled person and a shy bidder, i am passing.

[G_R__E_G]

I too will pitch my tent in the pass camp.

[Tataie]

So you would bid 3♣ or balance with 3♣ with Qxxxxx♣ and nothing else I assume.Jxxxxx♣ ? xxxxxx♣ ?

[ArtK78]

The opps described 2♥ as nonforcing. They did not say it showed a bust. There is a difference.

Presumably, 2♥ showed a fair hand - 7-10 HCP or so. You should ask your opps what kind of values 2♥ shows. There is a difference between a nonforcing response and a drop dead response.

So, given that your RHO showed an opening hand and LHO showed modest values, that really doesn't leave too much for partner. Still, as I said above, he could have the right nothing so that you could make a game. - QTxxxx of clubs would be perfect.

I still haven't decided what I am going to do on the hand. It is hard to pass out 2♠ with this good of a hand, but any call other than pass could result in a larger negative than -110 (assuming that the opps are making, which is far from certain).

[Vampyr]

MrAce, on 2011-July-18, 13:23, said:

I think this was a typo, we have the ♣ K in our hand.

I am sure that the poster meant some other king.

Anyway, it seems that the explanation "non-forcing" was not enough. More detail should have been given, or if necessary, elicited.

Edit: I see ArtK78 has gotten this in ahead of me.

[MrAce]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 13:26, said:

So you would bid 3♣ or balance with 3♣ with Qxxxxx♣ and nothing else I assume.Jxxxxx♣ ? xxxxxx♣ ?

Tataie my friend, is pd supposed to bid 3 NT with Qxxxxx or Jxxxxx or xxxxxx ♣ and nothing else even if we bid 2 NT ?

If you think he shd bid 3 NT with those, how about more likely Qxxxxx Jxxxxx xxxxxx ♦ suit and he bids 3 NT ?

[Tataie]

If you bid 2nt , 3♣ or 3♦ in front are both natural arent they ?
Beside you have no ideea how true you are with "my friend".
I used to play a lot with you , altay , ahuzobu , seawind , fifee ,noosance on okbridge.
Peace

[MrAce]

Tataie, on 2011-July-18, 14:01, said:

If you bid 2nt , 3♣ or 3♦ in front are both natural arent they ?

Yes of course, And your point is ? Do they also show 6 cards ?