[Hanoi5]

After 1♣ and a positive response and a new suit by opener (which doesn't deny a fit in responder's suit) how does responder continue?

Say:

---

Does responder continue 'naturally' (no trump without a fit, a new suit at least 4 cards, repeating his/her suit at least 6 cards, supporting at the 4 level weaker than supporting at the 3 level)?
Can responder 'say' how many controls s/he has?
Can responder 'say' how his/her support for opener is?
What's better?

[helene_t]

As long as we haven't found a fit it is best to use the cheapest bids for patterning out.

[PrecisionL]

helene_t, on 2011-June-14, 09:37, said:

As long as we haven't found a fit it is best to use the cheapest bids for patterning out.

There are many possibilities, depends how much memory you want to use / invest.

One improvement is to play transfer Precision and the acceptance of the transfer sets trumps and is a Beta Ask for Controls. This is documented in Precision Today, a paperback still in print.

A more difficult approach is that the cheapest bid by opener is a Relay asking for further distribution description.

[dake50]

I play accept in transfer precision is Trump ask.
Suit non-accept as support ask.
Each may be followed with specific suit control ask
or general controls ask or short ask.
The essence is find trump solidity/double fit solid for enough tricks.
Then controls to guard two fast losers.
And cherish room on these strong hands in case slam/grand presents.

[jmc]

We play that the auction continues naturally and responder or opener can just "shape out". I have never liked having the big club bidder's natural suit bid as some kind of support ask, but I know others like this method. I think playing natural followups except in specific limited situations is best. If you really want much more science you might as well play a full relay system, in my opinion.

[olien]

jmc, on 2011-June-20, 10:35, said:

We play that the auction continues naturally and responder or opener can just "shape out". I have never liked having the big club bidder's natural suit bid as some kind of support ask, but I know others like this method. I think playing natural followups except in specific limited situations is best. If you really want much more science you might as well play a full relay system, in my opinion.

agreed. For example, I'll use the auction: 1♣-1♠// 2♠ where I assume responder has shown a GF of some sort and 2♠ is a support ask. Now responder bids 3♣ to show a good hand w/o support. So the auction is at 3♣ and no fit has been found and all that's known is that one hand has 5+♠ and the other, for the sake of conversation, has shown 5+♥. Also, say responder does show a fit, there's nothing to be said that the best fit for SLAM purposes has been found. Say 3=5=1=4 opposite 5=1=3=4 or 5=1=2=5 where it would usually be superior to reach the ♣ fit. If going to put this much effort into a system, may as well play a full relay system.

[Gerben42]

After this sequence you are basically in the same situation as 2-over-1 GF bidders with 1♠ - 2♥. So I think the continuations should be similar: 2♠ may still be just 5 cards, 3m shows extras. 2NT is natural, either minimum or really good.

[mikestar13]

My own preference is for transfer responses where accepting the transfer is non-committal and asks responder to pattern out. A super-accept sets trumps.