BBO Discussion Forums: Yet another What Is This Double - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Yet another What Is This Double

Poll: Yet another What Is This Double (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Partner's double says

  1. Pure penalty (15 votes [57.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.69%

  2. Penalty, but pull with a void / no defense (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  3. Two-way expecting you to guess from your own hand (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Just cards/negative-ish/something (2 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  5. Pure takeout (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  6. Other (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   Siegmund 

  • Alchemist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,764
  • Joined: 2004-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beside a little lake in northwestern Montana
  • Interests:Creator of the 'grbbridge' LaTeX typesetting package.

Posted 2011-June-26, 17:27

An auction:

1NT - (2H) - 2NT - (P)
3C - (3H) - P - (P)
X

1NT=15-17
2H = Cappelletti
2NT= Lebensohl (so 3C forced.)

Clearly "bid your suit now, p"? Clearly penalty? Just look at your own cards and try to guess what partner is trying to do?
0

#2 User is offline   mohitz 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 357
  • Joined: 2008-May-19
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

Posted 2011-June-26, 20:00

I voted double to be pure takeout but responder can pass obviously. If my partner bid this, I would expect him to have support for both the minors, say 3244 or 22(45) or maybe 3145 if its our style to bid 1N with those.
All your ace are belong to us!
0

#3 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2011-June-26, 20:21

Double is 100% penalty. It doesn't consult responder, nor is it some sort of 'takeout'. Responder could have competed himself, or opener could have bid 4♣ (p/c)
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#4 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-June-27, 02:03

Pard seems to have a competitive hand with a minor, so take-out doesn't make much sense. But pure penalty doesn't make sense either because unless LHO is nuts, opener is gonna have like ♥KQJx once on a blue moon. So "optional/competitive" seems to be the most sensible meaning. I'd say something like

KJx
Kxx
Kxx
AQxx

give or take a card.
0

#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,942
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2011-June-27, 04:57

Right, responder had a natural 2♠ available so his 2NT showed clubs or diamonds. As Phil said, if opener wanted to compete to 4m he could just bid 4♣.

However, I might be understanding if partner pulls to 4m with a void. Depends whether we get a good result. ;)

Congratulations to whereagles on finding a hand where pass is really obvious.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#6 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2011-June-27, 08:27

Pure penalty imo for several reasons. Responder has already shown his type of hand (only the minor suit is unknown), Opener could've bid something to scramble into a decent spot (3♠ or 4♣), and Double of a weird bid is penalty (why didn't LHO bid 3♥ immediately?).
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#7 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-June-27, 09:39

Isn't

2♦*-(3♣)-X
*-multi

generally played also as penalty?

and I know it's the same auction but I think it's at least a little similar :)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#8 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-June-29, 08:10

Pure penalty.

And gwnn's auction too.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#9 User is offline   peachy 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,056
  • Joined: 2007-November-19
  • Location:Pacific Time

Posted 2011-June-29, 15:44

The Dbl is under their trump, thus usually takeout. But looking at the auction as a whole, I think it is penalty.
0

#10 User is offline   Siegmund 

  • Alchemist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,764
  • Joined: 2004-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beside a little lake in northwestern Montana
  • Interests:Creator of the 'grbbridge' LaTeX typesetting package.

Posted 2011-July-01, 10:39

It came up playing with a GIB in a Free Express game (not a robot game, where you can mouseover the bid before you make it and see what GIB is going to interpret it as.)

I made what I thought had to be a penalty double, and GIB announced it as takeout, and duly ran, turning +300 into -1100.

It did not help that GIB had lebensohled with 3-0-5-5. It DID have a heart void, but QJxxx opposite xx doesn't play well at the 4-level with 20HCP between you, six of mine wasted in hearts.
I posted the thread mostly to see if I should post it as a system bug in the GIB forum.
0

#11 User is offline   Lurpoa 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 324
  • Joined: 2010-November-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cogitatio 40
  • Interests:SEF
    BBOAdvanced2/1
    2/1 LC
    Benjamized Acol
    Joris Acol
    Fantunes
    George's K Squeeze

Posted 2011-July-01, 11:42

View PostSiegmund, on 2011-June-26, 17:27, said:

An auction:

1NT - (2H) - 2NT - (P)
3C - (3H) - P - (P)
X

1NT=15-17
2H = Cappelletti
2NT= Lebensohl (so 3C forced.)

Clearly "bid your suit now, p"? Clearly penalty? Just look at your own cards and try to guess what partner is trying to do?





♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
I know,

I keep repeating myself, but you need to agree on this sequence with your partner. There are always pro's and cons.

partner told he wanted to compete at the 3level. So he should have some values. Without agreement, this double seems to be for penalty. And for MPs I would prefer to play it like that.

But if this is for IMPS, and sitting in front of the 3♥, why would I risk this double....how frequent would that be ? So would prefer to have a further competitive double here......
♥Bob Herreman ♥
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

8 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 8 guests, 0 anonymous users