[Hanoi5]

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Teams, no opposing bidding.

[lowerline]

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[TWO4BRIDGE]

lowerline, on 2011-June-21, 07:16, said:

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I'd start out the same as lowerline where 1S! = 4th suit GF and may NOT have 4 cards ♠ .

That's where we part company.
West won't have to "jump" to 3D on his next turn; 2D will suffice in a GF atmosphere.

Now, West -- with slam intentions -- will get excited if East raises to 3D.
Hopefully, the pair can finds out about the lack of a Sp-Ctrl during cuebidding and settles in 5D.

3NT -- although makeable here -- may be hard to reach.... even with the greater bidding space .

[mike777]

using xyz and walsh

1c=1d
1h(unbal)=3d(nat, gf, long d)
3s?=3nt
p


1s for me would be nat, 4s, 5+d and gf

[jcrosa]

After 1♣- 1♦ - 1♥, in standard 2/1 (let's leave the Walsh issue aside), responder has no direct way to show a slammish hand with long ♦. So, a FSF bid will have to be used.

Scenario A:
1♠ is natural (and forcing 1 round, at least) and 2♠ is FSF (and GF). The next 3 bids would surely be 2♠ - 3♣ - 3♦. Next bid by opener should probably be 3♠, showing some doubt about 3NT. (Some might argue that, having avoided a NT rebid after 2♠, jack doubleton is now enough to bid 3NT; I disagree, but with queen doubleton it would be sensible). After 3♠, responder might place the final contract in 3NT. Has he done full justice to his hand? Wouldn't he bid the same way with a king less, say? Well, the fact is that his partner's bidding so far is not slam-positive (no ♦ belated support, likely no ♠ high honor). Giving up on slam is not absurd.

Scenario B:
1♠ is FSF (and GF, to simplify the analysis) and 2♠ is natural and GF. Bidding might proceed: 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♦ (no need to jump if GF; the jump in this case should be reserved for a self-sufficient suit) - 3♦ (2 card support is adequate at this point, and more so being J9; the 2♣ rebid tends to deny 3 card support) - and now what? One thing is certain, responder will not bid 3NT right away. He might do it after 3♥ (1st or 2nd roud control) - 3♠ (ambiguous, "last-train to 3NT"). Over 3♥, opener might also bid 4♥ as a suggestion to play there in the (expected) Moysian fit - partner will correct to diamonds if lacking 3 (good) hearts. If instead opener choses to bid 4♣, denying a ♠ control, responder knows there is no slam, and let's hope he has the means to stop in a makable game (4NT or 4♥).

[whereagles]

Lowerline's auction seems quite ok to me. Maybe opener can pull to 5♦ if he doesn't fancy the moysian.

[tolvyrj]

Old school way; 1♣- 1♦- 1♥- 1♠ FSF- 2♣ four + clubs, no stopper in ♠- 2 ♠ nacking- 3 Nt ive got a jack of ♠ and no 3 card ♦. 3 ♠ instead of 3 Nt would have denied J of ♠ or anything like that.

[MrAce]

tolvyrj, on 2011-June-22, 15:39, said:

Old school way; 1♣- 1♦- 1♥- 1♠ FSF- 2♣ four + clubs, no stopper in ♠- 2 ♠ nacking- 3 Nt ive got a jack of ♠ and no 3 card ♦. 3 ♠ instead of 3 Nt would have denied J of ♠ or anything like that.

2♣ over 4th sf does not deny ♠ stopper yet.