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Martensian hand?

Poll: Declare this hand (13 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your plan on a Diamond lead?

  1. Win the King, cross in trumps, cash AQ of D (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  2. Win the King, lead a C (8 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

  3. Overtake the King with the Ace, Cash QD, ruff a D (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  4. Overtake the King with the Ace, Cash QD, play a S (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

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#1 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 13:29



You considered opening 2♥ for weak with both majors but then rejected it on the premises that you have the rule-of-20 and the other room will open 1♠ also. Now you are in a seemingly hopeless contract, but at least the other table will play it too. ♦2 is lead (3rd 5th). Now what?

Does it change anything if you know that East considered a bit before passing?
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#2 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 13:39

I'm not particularly convinced, but voted on my instinct. Win the Ace, cash the ♦Q throwing a spade then exit a spade. If they return a trump (best), win in hand and play a second spade. If they play another trump, I play a club to the K and hope whoever has the A has no trumps left. I hope to score 2 spades, 2 diamonds and 6 trumps.
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#3 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 16:46

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-June-20, 13:39, said:

I'm not particularly convinced, but voted on my instinct. Win the Ace, cash the ♦Q throwing a spade then exit a spade. If they return a trump (best), win in hand and play a second spade. If they play another trump, I play a club to the K and hope whoever has the A has no trumps left. I hope to score 2 spades, 2 diamonds and 6 trumps.


We cannot score 2 spades and 6 trumps at the same time. Suppose the play goes as you suggest. The club Ace holder doesn't have the third trump. The position will be


We have scored 4 tricks and given away 3 tricks. Now, they can play a club which we have to ruff in hand. We ruff a spade to establish the suit but have no entry back. We can cross ruff for 6 trump tricks but then we wont be able to enjoy the spades.
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#4 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 18:31

Seems like our only legitimate chance is that spades are blocked, in which case we should win in dummy and lead a club to cut their communication. This requires someone to hold AK-tight. We could also try winning in dummy and leading a spade; maybe RHO will duck with Ax for example.
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#5 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 18:58

View PostGerben42, on 2011-June-20, 13:29, said:

You considered opening 2♥ for weak with both majors but then rejected it on the premises that you have the rule-of-20 and the other room will open 1♠ also.

Sorry, I didn't even for a moment consider opening 2♥ with a 12 count and 3HCP in the majors. Also I gave no consideration to the rule of 20 or the other room.

Anyway I would win the ♦K and play a club at trick 2.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 21:43

Win the ♦A, cash Q and ruff a diamond high. Give up a spade, win heart in hand high, lose 2nd spade, win heart on board and ruff the spade. Eventually I ruff something on the board and draw the last trump. If the opponents start tapping dummy I should run home on a crossruff and 2 side tricks.

The trap to the hand is playing a spade and not ruffing the diamond early. If I play A-Q ♦'s and give up a spade the timing is wrong. The play continues, spade, trump, spade, trump, ruff spade. Now if I give up a club, I can't draw trump and ruff the diamond without tapping out dummy.
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#7 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 22:48

View Post655321, on 2011-June-20, 18:58, said:

Sorry, I didn't even for a moment consider opening 2♥ with a 12 count and 3HCP in the majors. Also I gave no consideration to the rule of 20 or the other room.

Anyway I would win the ♦K and play a club at trick 2.


This. If they find the spade switch after maybe winning the ♣A and cash out 4 tricks, nice D opps. Obviously it's not the technical line but it definitely puts the most pressure on them.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#8 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 23:01

View Postkayin801, on 2011-June-20, 22:48, said:

This. If they find the spade switch after maybe winning the ♣A and cash out 4 tricks, nice D opps. Obviously it's not the technical line but it definitely puts the most pressure on them.


Ah, but I hadn't seen Phil's line when I posted, Phil's line looks to be 100% when hearts and spades both break doesn't it?
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#9 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 23:36

edit - misread Phil's line.
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#10 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-June-21, 03:53

View Post655321, on 2011-June-20, 23:01, said:

Ah, but I hadn't seen Phil's line when I posted, Phil's line looks to be 100% when hearts and spades both break doesn't it?


It is a fair line but not a legitimate one.
Good defenders will not play a ♥ but force North with ♣ plays when in with the first ♠.
If North now plays a 2nd ♠ they will stop the cross ruff with a trump.
There is now no way of establishing ♠ and cashing them and a cross ruff will yield only 9 tricks.

The only legitimate way I see of making this hand is to play for ♠ being blocked (♠AK tight, about a 7% chance) and playing a ♣ at trick 2.
Note that you will need nerves of steel if opponents return trumps.
To make the hand you must refuse the urge to overtake dummy's trumps to discard ♠ on high ♦.
Instead you must win the first and second trump return in dummy and play ♠ from dummy.
In practice it might be more profitable to hope for some type of mis-defense.
Whether Phil's line or the legitimate line is more likely to lead to mis-defense can be argued.

Rainer Herrmann
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-June-21, 11:01

Rainer'd....
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