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Martensian hand?

Poll: Declare this hand (13 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your plan on a Diamond lead?

  1. Win the King, cross in trumps, cash AQ of D (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  2. Win the King, lead a C (8 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

  3. Overtake the King with the Ace, Cash QD, ruff a D (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  4. Overtake the King with the Ace, Cash QD, play a S (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

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#1 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 13:29



You considered opening 2 for weak with both majors but then rejected it on the premises that you have the rule-of-20 and the other room will open 1 also. Now you are in a seemingly hopeless contract, but at least the other table will play it too. 2 is lead (3rd 5th). Now what?

Does it change anything if you know that East considered a bit before passing?
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#2 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 13:39

I'm not particularly convinced, but voted on my instinct. Win the Ace, cash the Q throwing a spade then exit a spade. If they return a trump (best), win in hand and play a second spade. If they play another trump, I play a club to the K and hope whoever has the A has no trumps left. I hope to score 2 spades, 2 diamonds and 6 trumps.
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#3 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 16:46

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-June-20, 13:39, said:

I'm not particularly convinced, but voted on my instinct. Win the Ace, cash the Q throwing a spade then exit a spade. If they return a trump (best), win in hand and play a second spade. If they play another trump, I play a club to the K and hope whoever has the A has no trumps left. I hope to score 2 spades, 2 diamonds and 6 trumps.


We cannot score 2 spades and 6 trumps at the same time. Suppose the play goes as you suggest. The club Ace holder doesn't have the third trump. The position will be


We have scored 4 tricks and given away 3 tricks. Now, they can play a club which we have to ruff in hand. We ruff a spade to establish the suit but have no entry back. We can cross ruff for 6 trump tricks but then we wont be able to enjoy the spades.
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#4 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 18:31

Seems like our only legitimate chance is that spades are blocked, in which case we should win in dummy and lead a club to cut their communication. This requires someone to hold AK-tight. We could also try winning in dummy and leading a spade; maybe RHO will duck with Ax for example.
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#5 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 18:58

View PostGerben42, on 2011-June-20, 13:29, said:

You considered opening 2 for weak with both majors but then rejected it on the premises that you have the rule-of-20 and the other room will open 1 also.

Sorry, I didn't even for a moment consider opening 2 with a 12 count and 3HCP in the majors. Also I gave no consideration to the rule of 20 or the other room.

Anyway I would win the K and play a club at trick 2.
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 21:43

Win the A, cash Q and ruff a diamond high. Give up a spade, win heart in hand high, lose 2nd spade, win heart on board and ruff the spade. Eventually I ruff something on the board and draw the last trump. If the opponents start tapping dummy I should run home on a crossruff and 2 side tricks.

The trap to the hand is playing a spade and not ruffing the diamond early. If I play A-Q 's and give up a spade the timing is wrong. The play continues, spade, trump, spade, trump, ruff spade. Now if I give up a club, I can't draw trump and ruff the diamond without tapping out dummy.
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#7 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 22:48

View Post655321, on 2011-June-20, 18:58, said:

Sorry, I didn't even for a moment consider opening 2 with a 12 count and 3HCP in the majors. Also I gave no consideration to the rule of 20 or the other room.

Anyway I would win the K and play a club at trick 2.


This. If they find the spade switch after maybe winning the A and cash out 4 tricks, nice D opps. Obviously it's not the technical line but it definitely puts the most pressure on them.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#8 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 23:01

View Postkayin801, on 2011-June-20, 22:48, said:

This. If they find the spade switch after maybe winning the A and cash out 4 tricks, nice D opps. Obviously it's not the technical line but it definitely puts the most pressure on them.


Ah, but I hadn't seen Phil's line when I posted, Phil's line looks to be 100% when hearts and spades both break doesn't it?
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#9 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2011-June-20, 23:36

edit - misread Phil's line.
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#10 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-June-21, 03:53

View Post655321, on 2011-June-20, 23:01, said:

Ah, but I hadn't seen Phil's line when I posted, Phil's line looks to be 100% when hearts and spades both break doesn't it?


It is a fair line but not a legitimate one.
Good defenders will not play a but force North with plays when in with the first .
If North now plays a 2nd they will stop the cross ruff with a trump.
There is now no way of establishing and cashing them and a cross ruff will yield only 9 tricks.

The only legitimate way I see of making this hand is to play for being blocked (AK tight, about a 7% chance) and playing a at trick 2.
Note that you will need nerves of steel if opponents return trumps.
To make the hand you must refuse the urge to overtake dummy's trumps to discard on high .
Instead you must win the first and second trump return in dummy and play from dummy.
In practice it might be more profitable to hope for some type of mis-defense.
Whether Phil's line or the legitimate line is more likely to lead to mis-defense can be argued.

Rainer Herrmann
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-June-21, 11:01

Rainer'd....
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