[gordontd]

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[helene_t]

4NT, this is ostensibly 6+di and 4cl.

[Onedown]

Did someone hold a gun to your head to bid 3d in the first place? Pass and lead the K of spades...

[655321]

Onedown, on 2011-June-19, 05:43, said:

Did someone hold a gun to your head to bid 3d in the first place? Pass and lead the K of spades...

1) 3♦ overcall seems obvious. Singleton heart, w/r, 6 card suit to the AK and an opening hand, passing 2♥ strikes me as bizarre, what is this about a gun to our head?

I would never pass partner's takeout double with this hand, pass deserves to score -990.

If I accidentally pulled out the pass card without noticing and found myself on lead to 4♥X I would lead a top diamond instead of the ♠K.

[jogs]

655321, on 2011-June-19, 06:19, said:

1) 3♦ overcall seems obvious. Singleton heart, w/r, 6 card suit to the AK and an opening hand, passing 2♥ strikes me as bizarre, what is this about a gun to our head?

I would never pass partner's takeout double with this hand, pass deserves to score -990.

If I accidentally pulled out the pass card without noticing and found myself on lead to 4♥X I would lead a top diamond instead of the ♠K.

Why is this a t/o double? Opponents often jump to 4♥ after 2♥ with only two hearts. t/o to what? We already announced that our suit is diamonds.

[gordontd]

jogs, on 2011-June-19, 07:07, said:

Why is this a t/o double? Opponents often jump to 4♥ after 2♥ with only two hearts. t/o to what? We already announced that our suit is diamonds.

This discussion was the reason I posted this hand (and the spectacular outcome, which I'll post later!)

In spite of playing together about once a month for a few years, I don't think we've really hammered out the details of these doubles. Our cards says "Level to which negative doubles apply: 4D (higher doubles show cards)".

[paulg]

I'm bidding but would take my time deciding between 4NT, 5♣ and 5♦. I'll probably plump for 4NT but slightly concerned that partner will play me for a better hand. The advantage of 5♣ is that partner will know that it is not strong (not 4NT originally) so doing it with 6-4 is not completely stupid.

[Hanoi5]

I'd go with 4NT, too.

But I don't quite understand why leading the ♠K is bad; partner should have values in spades, a ruff is not neccessarily ruled out though less likely probably. Neither do I understand why is Pass not an option (after 3♦ and here after partner's double); I think there are pairs who overcall really strong in direct position so their reopenings are...more daring.

[mtvesuvius]

4N. Agree with 655321's post, double is clearly takeout here.

[mtvesuvius]

jogs, on 2011-June-19, 07:07, said:

Why is this a t/o double? Opponents often jump to 4♥ after 2♥ with only two hearts. t/o to what? We already announced that our suit is diamonds.

This is like saying that since some people overcall bad five card suits, the auction 1♥ (2♣) X should be penalty, not negative, since opener already announced his suit was hearts.

[Phil]

I will bid an uncomfortable 4N recognizing that pass could work out spectacularly well.

Totally obvious 3♦ overcall. LOL @ anything else in the A/E.

[OleBerg]

655321 is always right.

http://www.facebook....21/456549285514

[AlexJonson]

OleBerg, on 2011-June-19, 13:34, said:

655321 is always right.

http://www.facebook....21/456549285514

Pretty much always right, but did he answer the question? Maybe he was about to say must bid but it depends on agreements.

[gordontd]

Well the full hand and auction were:

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I suppose in retrospect I was guilty of making a "Queen of Hearts" double - hoping it would mean what I wanted it to mean on this hand. I thought I was asking partner to pass unless his hand was quite unusual, whereas he thought I was asking him to bid.

North must have thought all his Christmases had come at once - how often do you have a trump stack of AKQTxx to double a five-level contract?!

We had a great group of team-mates who were amused rather than annoyed when we scored up with a -1700, and we still managed to win both the match and the whole event.

I'm not sure that I would have found the winning action in any case, since I would have been tempted to bid 4♠ if I thought the alternative was to pass. It does seem a shame that we aren't able to take the +500 that's there.

[whereagles]

Dbl is take out (pard having like 4234 or thereabouts), but I'd pass here because I'm far from sure I make 5m.

[han]

The only thing that surprised me in this thread was the post by Paulg. 4NT shouldn't be any stronger than 5C or 5D, you need the bid to sensibly investigate the best strain.

[pooltuna]

I disagree with those who insist on calling the X of 4♥ a TOX but then I distinguish between TOX and DSIP. With TOX I expect partner to takeout unless he can find a good reason not to do so. With a DSIP I expect him to take what IHO is the most intelligent action so the X primarily shows cards.

[Free]

Dbl as takeout isn't as absurd as some think. Sometimes you overcall when you can't Dbl 2♥. It's definitely possible that overcaller has 4♠s (4=2=6=1 for example), so why would you not want to find a cheap sacrifice over 4♥?

Most important lesson out of this is to make good agreements about Doubles. This is one area which I used to underestimate. A simple Dbl can be an easy way to victory, but it can also ruin one's game if not applied correctly or if there's a misunderstanding. It's better to have a bad agreement than no agreement at all.

[MrAce]

Free, on 2011-June-22, 05:47, said:

Dbl as takeout isn't as absurd as some think. Sometimes you overcall when you can't Dbl 2♥. It's definitely possible that overcaller has 4♠s (4=2=6=1 for example), so why would you not want to find a cheap sacrifice over 4♥?

Most important lesson out of this is to make good agreements about Doubles. This is one area which I used to underestimate. A simple Dbl can be an easy way to victory, but it can also ruin one's game if not applied correctly or if there's a misunderstanding. It's better to have a bad agreement than no agreement at all.

Free, u started to talk like Lurpoa lately (just a joke m8 )

[jogs]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-June-19, 10:02, said:

This is like saying that since some people overcall bad five card suits, the auction 1♥ (2♣) X should be penalty, not negative, since opener already announced his suit was hearts.

You see no difference in asking pard to bid another suit on the two level and asking pard to bid another suit on the five level?

whereagles, on 2011-June-20, 02:24, said:

Dbl is take out (pard having like 4234 or thereabouts), but I'd pass here because I'm far from sure I make 5m.

Holding that pattern(4234), why would you think there are 21 tricks on this board? That's why the pass is clear-cut.
The double should be cards, not penalty or t/o.