[mb_dunedin]

It begins pass-pass-

What do you open with :

♠ A.x.x.x
♥ x
♦ x
♣ A.K.Q.J.T.x.x

Does vulnerability affect your choice?


(edited... removed the 8th club and 14th card...)

[dcohio]

I don't open this gambling 3NT because my partner will pull without a spade control.

I'd consider opening a strong 2C, but if we end up defending partner isn't going to like my defensive values.

[Foxx]

First, I would pull out the TD card and wave it high in the air, because my hand has 14 cards.

Playing rubber, on the other hand, my choice would be to open 1♣ and try to show the 4-1-1-8 distribution, declare the hand, hope dummy doesn't come down with 12 cards, and then hope neither defender notices their short-handedness before I can claim.

[Hanoi5]

1♣. At most a side suit queen. Not an ace. Not a 7411!

[Zelandakh]

First you have to define what your 3NT opening means. Some play nothing outside, some do not. If you are playing the former and happen to have a side major headed by the A then just posting this definition will answer your own question.

[rhm]

Is this really a problem hand?

This is no 3NT opener in any position, not least because 6♠ might make while 3NT is down and with a 4 card ♠ suit there is little reason for a tactical peeempt anyway.
5♣ will also often be a much better contract than 3NT with this distribution. (How is partner supposed to know?). You are at least as likely to preempt your side than opponents.

In spite of the nice distribution, it looks to me like a very normal 1♣ opening. Not even rebid problems are likely after 1♣.
Most of the time you will simply rebid in spades and wait for signs of life from your passed partner.

You are much more likely to stay out of a no play game that way than reaching a miraculous 3NT, should partner be very poor with just the right cards. Of course if partner bids notrump at any time you can raise to game. 3NT may very well only make when partner declares

Rainer Herrmann

[helene_t]

In 3rd/4th seat some play that a 3NT opening shows a stopper in one side suit - partner may have to guess which one. If that is your agreement then by all means, open 3NT.

The hand is very good for slam, with KQx-xxxx-Axx-xxx we may go down in 3NT while 6♣ is a good contract. But we won't have slam that often opposite a passed hand.

I agree with rhm that it probably isn't a long-term winner to open 3NT with this kind of hands but I see that more as a case for not playing the 3NT in 3rd seat as showing a solid minor plus one side stopper. I think if you have that agreement you just stick to it. Maybe better to play 3NT as showing a solid suit plus some scattered half-stoppers in the other suits.

[mb_dunedin]

Thanks for the responses. I posted because it was a club game and 16 of 17 pairs holding this hand went minus, as there were only 9 tricks available in any contract and no-one was willing to defend with this hand (which was unfortunate as the opps couldn't make more than 7 tricks in hearts).

Partner held xxx - QJx - Axxxxx - x so 3NT was laydown. Over a 1C opening the opposition pre-empted hearts, and partner wasn't strong enough to bid 2NT or higher. One pair found the spade "fit" and went for -1100 in 6S. The only pair to end up positive did in fact open 3NT. The responder said afterwards he wasn't expecting partner to have a side ace and he couldn't see 9 tricks in no-trumps, but nor could he see 10 in clubs. He figured an in tempo pass might keep the opps out of 4H or 4S.

Chatting afterwards some of us felt the problem seemed to be that we weren't sure what a 3rd seat 3NT bid should look like. I know your hand can/should be a little stronger in the outside suits, but I've never seen it closely defined just what "a little extra" might include. I was wondering if this hand should sway my thinking into allowing a side ace, or if this is just a freak hand that you can't cater for in a normal system. The consensus seems to be the latter, thanks.

[blackshoe]

Open 1♣. If partner responds 1♠, a 4♣ rebid shows this hand. If partner responds 1♦ or 1♥, you have a problem. If you had a stopper in the unbid red suit, you could bid 3NT, but as it is I think you have to rebid 3♣. But then my head is screaming at me right now, so maybe I'm wrong.

[Gerben42]

blackshoe, on 2011-June-18, 16:42, said:

Open 1♣. If partner responds 1♠, a 4♣ rebid shows this hand. If partner responds 1♦ or 1♥, you have a problem. If you had a stopper in the unbid red suit, you could bid 3NT, but as it is I think you have to rebid 3♣. But then my head is screaming at me right now, so maybe I'm wrong.

Why do you have a problem? You can choose between 1♠ or 2♠ (I think with 8 tricks you should bid 2). Anyway starting with 1♣ is obvious, unless you play Precision then you should start instead with... 1♣. Hmm, same bid...

[Free]

I don't see a real problem getting to 3NT. A 1♣ opening is really obvious imo, no need for gambling on such huge hand because you can easily have a 23 HCP slam. Open 1♣ and reverse to 2♠.

If opps preempt in ♥ like they did, I'd just bid 2♠ with opener's hand. This shows considerable extras so North can bid 3NT with his Ace and a good ♥ stopper (doesn't matter if it's immediately or not).

[jmcw]

In any seat at any vulnerability I open 1♣, I don't consider any other bid even close!

Why on earth would I want to pre-empt a possible 4♠ contract?.

Partner will more than likely bid a red suit and I can comfortably rebid 1♠ if his next call is NT, I will then happily raise to 3NT which will have a much better shot from his side.

[mb_dunedin]

Free, on 2011-June-23, 02:15, said:

I don't see a real problem getting to 3NT. A 1♣ opening is really obvious imo, no need for gambling on such huge hand because you can easily have a 23 HCP slam. Open 1♣ and reverse to 2♠.

If opps preempt in ♥ like they did, I'd just bid 2♠ with opener's hand. This shows considerable extras so North can bid 3NT with his Ace and a good ♥ stopper (doesn't matter if it's immediately or not).

Unfortunately the bidding was at 3H or 4H by the time it came back to you so 2S wasn't an option.

[Free]

mb_dunedin, on 2011-June-24, 01:36, said:

Unfortunately the bidding was at 3H or 4H by the time it came back to you so 2S wasn't an option.

Well, you didn't mention that in your previous post, only that partner wasn't strong enough to bid 2NT or higher (which means LHO bid 2♥).