[KamalK]

---

Vul N-S. I am East. Lead was 9♥

Was 4♣right from me?

Could we reach 5♦ or was stop right?

(Finally tho +1 made)

Thanks for all inputs

Kamal

[mtvesuvius]

Another rough hand.

With your hand you are stuck over 3♦, but I think a temporizing 3♥ call would be better than 4♣. You still have interest in 3N, and don't want to bypass it if you can avoid it. The cuebid in an auction like this is the only non-committal call below 3N, and is generally used as a catchall for a lot of hands lacking a stopper but still interested in 3N if partner has one. I guess this could be considered a Western cue situation.

4♣ here should be 5-5 usually, and with your partner's hand I probably would have raised to 5♣, which ironically has chances, but is significantly inferior to 5♦. Even 5♦ is on the diamond finesse on best defense, or if it's offside with bad defense still on setting up enough spade pitches in time.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I might wind up in 3N on this hand if I was feeling a little like Brad Moss... Otherwise over 3♥, West would bid 4♦, and that'd probably end the auction.

[KamalK]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-June-16, 23:40, said:

Another rough hand.

With your hand you are stuck over 3♦, but I think a temporizing 3♥ call would be better than 4♣. You still have interest in 3N, and don't want to bypass it if you can avoid it. The cuebid in an auction like this is the only non-committal call below 3N, and is generally used as a catchall for a lot of hands lacking a stopper but still interested in 3N if partner has one. I guess this could be considered a Western cue situation.

4♣ here should be 5-5 usually, and with your partner's hand I probably would have raised to 5♣, which ironically has chances, but is significantly inferior to 5♦. Even 5♦ is on the diamond finesse on best defense, or if it's offside with bad defense still on setting up enough spade pitches in time.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I might wind up in 3N on this hand if I was feeling a little like Brad Moss... Otherwise over 3♥, West would bid 4♦, and that'd probably end the auction.

Thank you.
1. Is Western Cue a common convention for SAYC players? I dont know about it, must look up.

2. Yes I thought 3♥ we might land in 3NT and I wanted to take away that option.

3. But yes, we could have landed in 5♣.

4. So we did ok stopping in 4

Wonder if Uday was in a bad mood, sending out such 'rough' deals to a simple Intermediate :-))))

Thanks again for your detailed response.

[Cyberyeti]

You don't want to be in 5♦ it's a revolting contract.

I wouldn't bid 4♣, I'd probably bid 3♠ which to me is just any minimum with nothing much else to say, 4♣ to me shows extras and is GF so I couldn't pass 4♦.

I think you've got out in the right spot, not sure I'd manage that.

[han]

3D is forcing to game, so 4D is forcing.

Agree that east should have bid 3H instead of 4C.

[nige1]

You both bid aggressively. 3♠ or even 3♥ seem better than 4♣, Over 4♣ you did well to insist on ♦.
Looking only at your two hands,you don't mind whether or not you are in game.
But, in an elevated auction, opting for 4♦ is a bit like trying to land on a sixpence.

[Cyberyeti]

han, on 2011-June-17, 08:09, said:

3D is forcing to game, so 4D is forcing.

Maybe in your world, in mine can go 3♦-P-3♠-P-P-P but that's about the only non FG sequence.

[KamalK]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-June-17, 02:17, said:

You don't want to be in 5♦ it's a revolting contract.

I wouldn't bid 4♣, I'd probably bid 3♠ which to me is just any minimum with nothing much else to say, 4♣ to me shows extras and is GF so I couldn't pass 4♦.

I think you've got out in the right spot, not sure I'd manage that.

Thank you. I was hoping for pd to rebid her suit since NT was taken away by 4♣ and was willing to pass just about anything she bid.

Thanks for your response.

[KamalK]

han, on 2011-June-17, 08:09, said:

3D is forcing to game, so 4D is forcing.

Agree that east should have bid 3H instead of 4C.

right thanks

[KamalK]

nige1, on 2011-June-17, 08:26, said:

You both bid aggressively. 3♠ or even 3♥ seem better than 4♣, Over 4♣ you did well to insist on ♦.
Looking only at your two hands,you don't mind whether or not you are in game.
But, in an elevated auction, opting for 4♦ is a bit like trying to land on a sixpence.

yes true Thanks for response.

[KamalK]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-June-17, 08:42, said:

Maybe in your world, in mine can go 3♦-P-3♠-P-P-P but that's about the only non FG sequence.

Thanks. 2 ?s pls

1. If I rebid my 5 card suit A) is it OK? Doesnt show extra length? B) Is 3♠ NF in this sequence when opps not competing?

2. Over 3♠ if pd 3NT then?

Thanks

[KamalK]

Many thanks to all who responded, very useful inputs.

Kamal

[Cyberyeti]

KamalK, on 2011-June-18, 00:15, said:

Thanks. 2 ?s pls

1. If I rebid my 5 card suit A) is it OK? Doesnt show extra length? B) Is 3♠ NF in this sequence when opps not competing?

2. Over 3♠ if pd 3NT then?

Thanks

1. You need to talk to your partner, and see how you play 3♦.

If 3♦ is not GF for you, then 3♠ is the "load of rubbish" bid, whatever your spade holding if you have no diamond fit and no heart stop.

If 3♦ is GF, then I'd suggest that most of the time 3♠ shows a 6th one, although I'd consider bidding it on this just in case partner can bid 3N.

2. If it goes 3♠-P-3N then you're going down, you have to pass, but partner shouldn't bid that. Curiously I fancy your chances of making 3N from your side as I don't think the A♥ gets led, but I can't see how you can arrange that.

[han]

I think it is very inconvenient to play that 3D is not forcing. Then if I have a 14-count with a so-so 6-card major I have to make up a bid that I don't want to make up. I'd rather get too high on some hands to gain more comfort on these auctions.

Making the 3S NF doesn't help much either. Responder usually doesn't have support, and playing 3S in a 5-2 or 5-2 fit is not an attractive option. And after 3S, is 4D forcing? If not, then responder will have to make up a bid again.

It all gets too messy, there is a big difference between bidding a new suit at the 2-level or at the 3-level.

[Cyberyeti]

han, on 2011-June-18, 04:05, said:

I think it is very inconvenient to play that 3D is not forcing. Then if I have a 14-count with a so-so 6-card major I have to make up a bid that I don't want to make up. I'd rather get too high on some hands to gain more comfort on these auctions.

Making the 3S NF doesn't help much either. Responder usually doesn't have support, and playing 3S in a 5-2 or 5-2 fit is not an attractive option. And after 3S, is 4D forcing? If not, then responder will have to make up a bid again.

It all gets too messy, there is a big difference between bidding a new suit at the 2-level or at the 3-level.

It gets equally messy when I have not quite enough to bid a game forcing 3♦, next hand bids 4♥ and partner with 5♠/5♦ doesn't have enough to contribute further, you pays your money and you takes your choice. And yes 4♦ would be forcing over 3♠.