[han]

Phil, on 2011-June-17, 12:01, said:

I don't understand double.

I don't like it either, but not understanding it seems a little dense.

[VM1973]

AlexJonson, on 2011-June-17, 12:16, said:

It looks like at least one read the post as 'pass it out' rather than 'pass is out'.

Also it may be that talking about things depending on partnership agreements attracted disapproval.

You may have committed other crimes I don't know about.

Well for me, double is out (of the question) because most partners I've had play double as penalty from 3NT on up and the hand may be many things, but a penalty double of 4♦ it is not. A lot of bids could work out. Partner might have ♠Axxxx ♥xx ♦xxx ♣xxxx and 4♠ or 5♣ might play very well with 4♥ an inferior place. On the other hand, considering the preempt, a very reasonable 4♥, 4♠ or 5♣ contract might run into 4-1 or 5-0 breaks. If I had the 4NT = 2 lower unbid agreement, that would be my preferred call. Otherwise you just take one of the suits and bid something in it. There aren't many ways to show a great two-suiter with one bid starting at the 4 level. The problem with a straight shot bid of 4♥ is your partner might well have ♠AKJx ♥x ♦xxxx ♣xxxx and you get a 4-2, 5-1 or even 6-0 break to top it off. 4NT might get you too high, but at least you land in a sensible contract.

Plus, if it's matchpoints, you have to face the possibility that other tables opened only 3♦ and so your hand got to bid both suits.

Even a 4NT Blackwood might work out well if partner responded that he held 2 aces.

[jules101]

Ah well - no consensus it seems.......

---

You make 13 tricks in ♥, ♠, ♣ on any lead.

You are faced with fab dummy, but still expecting the ♥ suit to break badly, but all goes a bit too well.

If East and North hand were switched tho, then you would be congratulating yourself for perfect bid of 4♥.

All but one West elected to open 4♦, and this was a winning action. Only one in MP tourney reached slam after 4♦ was passed round to South. Most settled for 4♥+3, but a few collected +800 for 5♦X-3 after East raised!

One West opened 1♦ North found a ♠ overcall, and South drove to 6♠.

As Adam said, "preempts - especially those at 4-level - sometimes work....."

So another lesson from this hand is that opening 1♦ with West hand isn't a winning action? DISCUSS!

[ggwhiz]

The west hand is a crapshoot and a 1♦ opener could easily win. If you trade the North and East hands, this could lead to buying the contract or defending something below a cold N/S game.

The 4♦ bid on a different lie could easily be - whatever, doubled or not against nothing.

I might bid either depending on whether I had an extra shot in my latte but it's either or. A 3 level pre-empt is nowhere.

[VM1973]

jules101, on 2011-June-19, 20:13, said:

Ah well - no consensus it seems.......

---

You make 13 tricks in ♥, ♠, ♣ on any lead.

You are faced with fab dummy, but still expecting the ♥ suit to break badly, but all goes a bit too well.

If East and North hand were switched tho, then you would be congratulating yourself for perfect bid of 4♥.

All but one West elected to open 4♦, and this was a winning action. Only one in MP tourney reached slam after 4♦ was passed round to South. Most settled for 4♥+3, but a few collected +800 for 5♦X-3 after East raised!

One West opened 1♦ North found a ♠ overcall, and South drove to 6♠.

As Adam said, "preempts - especially those at 4-level - sometimes work....."

So another lesson from this hand is that opening 1♦ with West hand isn't a winning action? DISCUSS!

I must admit that it never entered my mind to find 3♦ in the responder hand because you should raise with that holding. You could easily buy the contract for 5♦ undoubled or push 4th seat into making a high-level guess without much to go on. It is just barely possible to find slam, I think maybe with
4♦ PASS PASS 4NT (two lower unbid)
PASS 5♦ PASS 6♥... but really it's kind of a stretch.

And making 13 tricks with the hands is kind of lucky. Not only do you need hearts to behave, but you also need to find the Q♠ in the pocket.

[paulg]

VM1973, on 2011-June-20, 07:21, said:

I must admit that it never entered my mind to find 3♦ in the responder hand because you should raise with that holding. You could easily buy the contract for 5♦ undoubled or push 4th seat into making a high-level guess without much to go on. It is just barely possible to find slam, I think maybe with
4♦ PASS PASS 4NT (two lower unbid)
PASS 5♦ PASS 6♥... but really it's kind of a stretch.

And making 13 tricks with the hands is kind of lucky. Not only do you need hearts to behave, but you also need to find the Q♠ in the pocket.

I disagree. As responder you know that the opposition can almost certainly make a slam and bidding 5♦ may be the one way to push them into it. Even if they double it is likely to be -800 so might as well let them try and play in game. This hand shows that they might well find it difficult to express both their distribution and values.