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Second who is to blame

#1 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-June-10, 17:14

399|300[/hv]

Would you blame West for missing this slam? 2NT shows 21-22.
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#2 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-June-10, 19:51

I assume the bidding would go
2NT - 3S- C-xfer
4D - 4H- Criss-cross key ask
6C.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-10, 21:31

 the hog, on 2011-June-10, 17:14, said:

399|300[/hv]

Would you blame West for missing this slam? 2NT shows 21-22.


I think you forgot to insert the bidding. :)
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#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-June-10, 21:54

Yes, always blame West. I am always North or East.

But, it looks like a 23 to me, and to KNR. Still not a great slam, and we don't have the tools to decide. Depends on how frisky we feel at the moment.
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 02:01

You'd need to be a bit optimistic to try for a slam with the west hand. Other than some gadget to show a club slam try on a 5332 (which few, if any, have), the only way I see to bid this slam is with a strong club system.
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#6 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 04:46

 aguahombre, on 2011-June-10, 21:54, said:

But, it looks like a 23 to me, and to KNR.


I agree with this. Counting East as 22 HCP means that you you do not upgrade 1 HCP for the fact that you have...

1. Every honor working
2. A 10-9 coupled with two other honors
3. High control count (8 controls; 8X2.33=26.67, 26.67-22=4.67, 4.67=+1)
4. Not 4-3-3-3
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 05:25

Agree with the 2NT opening.

If W did anything positive, obviously E has to move, but I wouldn't blame W for just bidding 3NT.

Aquahombre, why is it not a good slam? 6NT may not be so good but in 6♣ you can combine several options. Play a low heart to the king. If N steps up with the ace you are home. Otherwise, now a low heart to the ten. If the jack is onside, you are home. Assuming ♥T loses to the jack, now cash ♦AK. If ♦Q does not drop, your last chance is a spade finesse. Looks like some 79% to me. Maybe there are squeeze chances also.

Edit: thanks, rhm, for pointing out the flaw in this argument. If South wins the first heart trick we can't afford to take another heart finesse as we are now down if the T loses to the J. If my 79% is correct when ♥A is with N then over-all we will have appr 69%.
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#8 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 05:25

No
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 08:37

Helene: it is fine slam for clubs, but I already knew that wasn't going to happen if I were bidding it. Less options in 6N, maybe stalling a bit but all boing down to finding four tricks in diamonds.
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#10 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 09:19

 helene_t, on 2011-June-11, 05:25, said:

Agree with the 2NT opening.

If W did anything positive, obviously E has to move, but I wouldn't blame W for just bidding 3NT.

Aquahombre, why is it not a good slam? 6NT may not be so good but in 6♣ you can combine several options. Play a low heart to the king. If N steps up with the ace you are home. Otherwise, now a low heart to the ten. If the jack is onside, you are home. Assuming ♥T loses to the jack, now cash ♦AK. If ♦Q does not drop, your last chance is a spade finesse. Looks like some 79% to me. Maybe there are squeeze chances also.

79% is certainly too much, though 6♣ is worth bidding, particularly if it is played from East. If South has the heart ace, your chances drop to less than 60%
My guess is overall chances are less than 70%

The East hand is worth more in a trump contract. KNR is not a good elevator for notrump contracts. This is a recurring problem of 2NT openers. What do you do with balanced hands which would be worth more in a suit contract?
Maybe the lesser defect is to upgrade to a 2♣ opener. But if your 2NT rebid then gets raised on a minimum you likely will be in a no-play 3NT

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#11 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 11:00

 dake50, on 2011-June-10, 19:51, said:

I assume the bidding would go
2NT - 3S- C-xfer
4D - 4H- Criss-cross key ask
6C.

I can't find "criss-cross key ask" anywhere. Could you please explain these bids? Thanks.
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#12 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 16:37

I can see East accepting any kind of minor suit slamtry.

I just can't imagine West "asking" here .... ( not enough hcp, no 6+ long suit... not even a 5/4 ... and no shortness anywhere ) .
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#13 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 17:05

2NT - 3NT
Next board imo.
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-June-11, 21:43

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-June-11, 16:37, said:

I can see East accepting any kind of minor suit slamtry.

I just can't imagine West "asking" here .... ( not enough hcp, no 6+ long suit... not even a 5/4 ... and no shortness anywhere ) .


Had I opened 2C we would have got there:
2C 3C would show a positive with HHxxx. Now I think it is not that difficult. Our auction was the pedestrian 2N 3N.
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#15 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2011-June-12, 00:23

I blame whoever tried to place blame. (No blame.)
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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2011-June-12, 01:39

We'd reach 6♣ but only because we play 2N good 19-21 so have to open 2♣ intending to show 22-23, after a 2♣-3♣ start, we're virtually certain to bid it.

Playing the OP's system, it's a nice 22 but not exceptional, I probably wouldn't upgrade the opening bid (it's close, make the 2 jacks a queen or give me a 5 card suit and I would), so routine 2N-3N.
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#17 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-June-12, 14:37

I blame north for having all the important cards. 2N-3N, wtp?
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#18 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-13, 05:47

 mtvesuvius, on 2011-June-12, 14:37, said:

I blame north for having all the important cards. 2N-3N, wtp?


I dont think the loacation of honors except than ♦ Q matters.
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