[dickiegera]

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King of ♣ off side and king of ♦ also off side.
6NT cold by West. Jack of ♥ falls.

Do agree with East 1♥ bid and how should bidding continue?

Thank you

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I agree with the 1♥.
Each side has "extras", so either partner would have to invite with 4NT over partner's 3NT
regardless whether the 4th suit Forcing auction is:
1C - 1D - 1H - 1S! or
1C - 1D - 1H - 2S!

But I wouldn't be surprised if the auction ends in 3NT since each side has shortness in partner's first bid suit.

[Hanoi5]

Several questions come to mind.

1. Do you play Walsh: can responder have a Major with a -12HCP's hand?
2. Were diamonds 5-2? That's the only reason I see for 6NT not being available as East.

I have mixed feelings about 1♥. It could be right if partner next bids 2♦ with quite a poor hand, but it might get awkward if partner bids NT. Here I think it's fine if it goes 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠ FSF, now opener can bid 3♠ showing his/her shape (pretty much, 4441 is still a possibility) and then it's up to West to bid the slam.

[dickiegera]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-June-12, 09:09, said:

I agree with the 1♥.
Each side has "extras", so either partner would have to invite with 4NT over partner's 3NT
regardless whether the 4th suit Forcing auction is:
1C - 1D - 1H - 1S! or
1C - 1D - 1H - 2S!

But I wouldn't be surprised if the auction ends in 3NT since each side has shortness in partner's first bid suit.

Yes we play walsh. And Diamonds were 5-2. Final contract was 3NT East making 6 on a Spade lead.

[dickiegera]

Hanoi5, on 2011-June-12, 09:30, said:

Several questions come to mind.

1. Do you play Walsh: can responder have a Major with a -12HCP's hand?
2. Were diamonds 5-2? That's the only reason I see for 6NT not being available as East.

I have mixed feelings about 1♥. It could be right if partner next bids 2♦ with quite a poor hand, but it might get awkward if partner bids NT. Here I think it's fine if it goes 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠ FSF, now opener can bid 3♠ showing his/her shape (pretty much, 4441 is still a possibility) and then it's up to West to bid the slam.

Sorry I replied to wrong post. We play walsh and diamonds were 5-2. And East played and made 6NT on a spade lead.

[mike777]

dickiegera, on 2011-June-12, 08:19, said:

---

King of ♣ off side and king of ♦ also off side.
6NT cold by West. Jack of ♥ falls.

Do agree with East 1♥ bid and how should bidding continue?

Thank you

Plug for xyz here.


1c=1d
1h(unbal)=3d(nat and gf, long d)
3nt?=4nt
6nt
---


Playing xyz or walsh 1spade here would be 4s, 5+D and gf.

[JLOGIC]

1C 1D 1H 1S 3S 6N? Perhaps not the prettiest auction.

1C 1D 1H 2S 3S 3N 4C 6N if you play that 2S is the bid that denies spades. 4C shows extras with this shape.

With this much in values any reasonable auction should get there.

[Mbodell]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-12, 16:14, said:

1C 1D 1H 2S 3S 3N 4C 6N if you play that 2S is the bid that denies spades. 4C shows extras with this shape.

How much stronger does responder have to be to bid 4nt instead of 3nt in that auction? I think that's what I'd want to bid (4nt is quantitative there, right?)

[JLOGIC]

Mbodell, on 2011-June-13, 01:54, said:

How much stronger does responder have to be to bid 4nt instead of 3nt in that auction? I think that's what I'd want to bid (4nt is quantitative there, right?)

I don't know, the hand gets a lot worse when partner has short diamonds. Can even a 19 count force to slam when partner has diamond shortness opposite their long suit? I don't think so, so I think 4N would be overloaded and basically too much of an overbid there if it can be made with this hand.

Another way to look at it: when partner passes 3N, how good will slam be? I would expect partner to bid on with 17 (responder has a higher minimum than opener, and opener also is limited to 18 presumably, so 17-18 is a managable range that does not get you too high in 4N most likely), so we are missing slam with 16 opp 16 when we have AQJxxx opp shortness, probably not the worst thing ever.

All that said I think playing that 2S is any GF without 4 spades is a pretty miserable way to play and preempts your auction way too much.

[PCH]

I see most agree with 1H, I do not. The hand is to strong and a reverse is called for. (2H or 2S I do not know the difference)Now East asks for aces and when all 5 are accounted for he will ask for Kings and when 2 are missing he settles on 6NT. Should be easy with the reverse.

[mike777]

PCH, on 2011-June-13, 07:07, said:

I see most agree with 1H, I do not. The hand is to strong and a reverse is called for. (2H or 2S I do not know the difference)Now East asks for aces and when all 5 are accounted for he will ask for Kings and when 2 are missing he settles on 6NT. Should be easy with the reverse.

fwiw

1)
yOUR BID looks more like a jump shift, I assume reverse means something else.
2)
Not sure if 4nt is going to be quant or as you assume bw.
3) I hope pard does not respond over 1c on close to nothing.


4) ace ask by east?

NOt sure how the bidding goes and east makes an ace ask
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granted in my auction no one asks for aces