[dickiegera]

---

Is 3♥ inviting game or something else?
What would 2♠ mean?
What would 3♣ mean?

If 3♥ is inviting game what should East do?

Thank you

[Hanoi5]

It all depends on agreement.

3♥ could be a'pre-emptive' move so that opponents don't balance and find a fit (they've already mentioned spades so maybe this isn't worth doing, but still a matter of agreement).
2♠ and 3♣ should both be try-bids, asking for help in that suit in order to play game.
If 3♥ is an invitation East should accept, he's got 10 HCP's and a 6-card suit (for many this might be a invitation to game by itself not a simple raise)

[aguahombre]

Hanoi5, on 2011-May-26, 09:21, said:

It all depends on agreement.

2♠ and 3♣ should both be try-bids, asking for help in that suit in order to play game.

The rest of the post (snipped) is perfect IMO. In keeping with "It all depends on agreement", however, this part might say "could both be try-bids" --instead of "should".

[Free]

Just agree something and stick to it. If you like to keep it simple, you can just ignore the overcall and bid like the auction went 1♥-pass-2♥-pass-...

[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on 2011-May-26, 13:20, said:

Hanoi5, on 2011-May-26, 09:21, said:

It all depends on agreement.

2♠ and 3♣ should both be try-bids, asking for help in that suit in order to play game.

The rest of the post (snipped) is perfect IMO. In keeping with "It all depends on agreement", however, this part might say "could both be try-bids" --instead of "should".

I think it's clear that both 2♠ and 3♣ ARE game tries, not "should" or "could" be. Partnership agreement would dictate whether they are natural-suit game tries, help-suit game tries, or short-suit game tries. Unfortunately, I don't currently play enough ACBL games to answer OP's question as to which of those three he should presume if there has been no discussion, but when I did the answer would have been to presume that they were help-suit game tries.

[aguahombre]

Of course they are both game tries. But since I have never quite known what others consider "help suits" and have found another workable method, we use a different structure of game tries ---with which I will not bore you.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

for me, the meaning of 3H in the given seq. would be similar to the meaning of the 3H bid
in the same seq. without the overcall.

Similar 2S / 2NT / 3C would also keep its meaning.

What to use 3H for is of course open for discussion, if you have 2NT as general game try,
you could use 3H as either asking for trump suit quality or as blocking raise, I dont believe
in "blocking raieses", so ...

If Wests invites, East will accept, I am not saying 2H was wrong, but selling the East
hand as a limit raise wont be the worst crime either.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dickiegera]

P_Marlowe, on 2011-May-27, 02:00, said:

Hi,

for me, the meaning of 3H in the given seq. would be similar to the meaning of the 3H bid
in the same seq. without the overcall.

Similar 2S / 2NT / 3C would also keep its meaning.

What to use 3H for is of course open for discussion, if you have 2NT as general game try,
you could use 3H as either asking for trump suit quality or as blocking raise, I dont believe
in "blocking raieses", so ...

If Wests invites, East will accept, I am not saying 2H was wrong, but selling the East
hand as a limit raise wont be the worst crime either.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dickiegera]

Thank you for your reply

Questions:

#1 What should 2♠ a cue bid mean? Asking about a control?
#2 I am answering my own question here but 3♣ should be help suit for ♣ ?
#3 And is 2NT a general game try?

Thank you

[Hanoi5]

dickiegera, on 2011-May-27, 21:21, said:

Thank you for your reply

Questions:

#1 What should 2♠ a cue bid mean? Asking about a control?
#2 I am answering my own question here but 3♣ should be help suit for ♣ ?
#3 And is 2NT a general game try?

Thank you

1. Asking for help in the suit. A, K a singleton void, of course, but also a doubleton. This is at least the a priori meaning.
2. Yes, 3♣ should ask for help in clubs.
3. Yes, you can use 2NT as a general try. You can also use it to show some values in spades offering 3NT as the final contract (this is of course because they bid spades, this meaning makes more sense than the general try, I'd say).

[P_Marlowe]

dickiegera, on 2011-May-27, 21:21, said:

Thank you for your reply

Questions:

#1 What should 2♠ a cue bid mean? Asking about a control?
#2 I am answering my own question here but 3♣ should be help suit for ♣ ?
#3 And is 2NT a general game try?

Thank you

#2 If you play help suit - the answer is yes.
We play long suit, i.e. we show values.
If you play fit-jumps, i.e. if you believe in the theory that after interventions,
it does not make sense to play splinter except in their suit, than it would be
natural to play 3C as value showing.
We also play fit jumps, so ...
#1 If you play help suit, than the cue would be asking for a control
#2 yes

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jmcw]

dickiegera, on 2011-May-26, 08:59, said:

---

Is 3♥ inviting game or something else?
What would 2♠ mean?
What would 3♣ mean?

If 3♥ is inviting game what should East do?

Thank you

3♥ can be pretty much whatever you and partner agree. 2♠, 2N, 3♣, and 3♦ are all a try for game at least. So, with lots of tries available it makes quite a bit of sense to bid 3♥ as a block. On the given hand I would have "tried" with 2♠(tell me more). FWIW I think 2♥ a big underbid, sure looks limit to me.

[whereagles]

The standard agreement is "preemptive". Some theoreticians disagree, though.

[MrAce]

I play this as preemptive.