[fuburules3]

---

Playing 2/1 with gambling 3NT and opening one of a minor and rebidding 3NT over a 1 over 1 shows a near solidish suit and stoppers, and 2♥ is NF (2!d is artificial and forcing). What do you make of the 3NT bid?

Do you pull this contract or let it sit? Does your answer change if you think there is some chance partner has forgotten your agreement that 2♥ is NF?

Perhaps, more importantly, what is the best "partnership" bid? If you face what seems like an impossible bid is it better to trust partner knows what he is doing (and in this case pass) or try to save the auction if you suspect partner has messed up agreements (or, hopefully not, doesn't know what he is doing)?

[menggq]

1C 1S
2C ?

Here 2H/2D r all forcing if no convention agreement.

[Lurpoa]

fuburules3, on 2011-May-21, 02:06, said:

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Playing 2/1 with gambling 3NT and opening one of a minor and rebidding 3NT over a 1 over 1 shows a near solidish suit and stoppers, and 2♥ is NF (2!d is artificial and forcing). What do you make of the 3NT bid?

Do you pull this contract or let it sit? Does your answer change if you think there is some chance partner has forgotten your agreement that 2♥ is NF?

Perhaps, more importantly, what is the best "partnership" bid? If you face what seems like an impossible bid is it better to trust partner knows what he is doing (and in this case pass) or try to save the auction if you suspect partner has messed up agreements (or, hopefully not, doesn't know what he is doing)?

Your hand is not of much help to partner, if he has a ♦/♣ hand.

No I, in the interest of the partnership, I'll go for 4♥.

If partner has some toppers in the minors, a 4Major contract in the 5-2 fit should be playable.

[mgoetze]

fuburules3, on 2011-May-21, 02:06, said:

2♥ is NF (2!d is artificial and forcing). What do you make of the 3NT bid?

I make of it that your partner probably forgot this rather unusual detail of your system.

Quote

Perhaps, more importantly, what is the best "partnership" bid? If you face what seems like an impossible bid is it better to trust partner knows what he is doing (and in this case pass)

Always assume partner knows what he's doing.

[fromageGB]

Partner has very long clubs, tricks in diamonds, and open in hearts. What else can he say after 1♠? When you show hopefully a stop in hearts, and he sees a likely 9 tricks in NT, what else should he say?

Trust him.

[han]

Partner either forgot the agreement, he overlooked an ace when he bid 2C, or he is an idiot. Yes I trust my partner, but I trust him not to be an idiot. I'd much rather assume that he forgot an agreement.

There is no hand that bids this way, do not trust your partner this time. If partner had an unusually good hand, he could have bid 2NT showing an unusually good hand.

Unfortunately there is no way to rescue partner. 3NT is not doubled yet, I pass. Perhaps partner really did not see the diamond ace when he bid 2C, and 3NT makes. Perhaps it goes down 2, with 4H getting doubled and going down 4. Stranger things have happened.

There is no such thing as the "best partnership bid", apart from the best bid of course. If you just try to win at all times, you'll be doing your partnership the biggest favor.

[petterb]

Isn't it unusual to play 2♥ by a passed hand as forcing?

[aguahombre]

petterb, on 2011-May-21, 12:06, said:

Isn't it unusual to play 2♥ by a passed hand as forcing?

No, but not universal either. I would bet most experienced players without a completely artificial 2D available play it forcing, though perhaps not forcing to the moon.

[ahydra]

Could he not have
xx
x
Axx
AKQxxxx

and is gambling that now you've shown both majors, you have an Ace there and he can run 9 tricks? I suppose not if you open this a gambling 3NT, but often it's played as "no outside A or K" or somesuch.

ahydra

[helene_t]

Ahydra, yeah maybe. But I think that hand is a 3♣ rebid to most. And otherwise hight bid 3♦ instead of 3NT in order to rightside a 3NT contract. Unless 3♦ is a hearts raise.

[aguahombre]

helene_t, on 2011-May-21, 15:39, said:

But I think that hand is a 3♣ rebid to most.

Yep. However, 3NT is only an impossible bid with the OP conditions. If 2H is forcing, then 3NT is quite possible. (KXX of diamonds instead of AXX in Ahydra's example, for instance.)

[han]

ahydra, on 2011-May-21, 14:34, said:

xx
x
Axx
AKQxxxx

Please tell me that you overlooked an ace when you bid 2C?

[fuburules3]

The hand partner actually held was

xx
xx
Axx
AKQxxx

Partner had forgotten our agreement (a hand like this came up and we briefly discussed and agreed to play this way, so not too surprising). With good breaks 3NT was down only 1 or 2. Sadly we played 4!♠ down 4 (should be -2, but some sub-optimal play . . .).

At the table my thinking was partner has either forgotten our agreement or gone crazy, but maybe has three hearts and 4!♥ has play, but I think I agree with the sentiment that it's better to pass before opps wake up and penalize us.

[Lurpoa]

fuburules3, on 2011-May-22, 01:41, said:

to pass before opps wake up and penalize us.

yes, is a good argument....

[xxhong]

Partner may hold something like x x AQJx KQJTxxx and in a gambling mood to wish for a diamond lead and one ace from you.

[pooltuna]

aguahombre, on 2011-May-21, 12:44, said:

No, but not universal either. I would bet most experienced players without a completely artificial 2D available play it forcing, though perhaps not forcing to the moon.

For me this is unusual as it violates my meta agreement "Passed hand cannot make any forcing calls other than qbids of the opponent's suits"

[P_Marlowe]

fuburules3, on 2011-May-21, 02:06, said:

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Perhaps, more importantly, what is the best "partnership" bid? If you face what seems like an impossible bid is it better to trust partner knows what he is doing (and in this case pass) or try to save the auction if you suspect partner has messed up agreements (or, hopefully not, doesn't know what he is doing)?

Trust your partner.

If you think p messed up the agreement set, you believe p does not know,
what he was doing.
Bidding 4C / 4M is only an option, if you have a really unlikely hand, e.g.
55 in the majors and 3 card support for p.

The given hand is borderline - you are 5-5 in the majors, and your hand is only
worth a sinmple response, if one of your suits are trumps, so I could understand
4H, but you bid 4H, not because you think p messed up the bidding, but because
you are 5-5 with nothing to spare.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

petterb, on 2011-May-21, 12:06, said:

Isn't it unusual to play 2♥ by a passed hand as forcing?

Maybe - but even a passed hand, can hold inv. values, so bidding
2H as NF may still send the message, that I am holding a constructive
hand, that has some interest in game, even oppossite a min. opener,
and that is certainly not the case for the given hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe