[jillybean]

---

System restrictions:
Playing 2/1
1♦:2♣ 2♠ shows extra's (K+)

[han]

1D - 2C
2S - 3S
etc depending on agreements.

[jillybean]

han, on 2011-May-18, 22:47, said:

1D - 2C
2S - 3S
etc depending on agreements.

You have no hesitation in upgrading this hand?
What comes after 3♠ ?

[Flameous]

I'm not sure how it's upgrading. If I had the same hand without ♦K, it would still be a clear opener and you said 2♠ promises K extra.
After 3♠, I'd follow with 3NT frivolous (or 4♦ if playing serious)
Responder can follow with RKC, bid 5NT over 5♠ and then leave it to opener with 6♠. (If opener had ♦Q in addition, he'd have easy raise to 7)

[1eyedjack]

If you accept that it is borderline whether opener has extras - and some would I think regard it as borderline whether North has an opener without the Diamond King, then I suppose it could start
1D...2C
2D...2S
3S

And then responder would use serious 3N (or cue 4C if 3N is non-serious). Opener, having a very good hand in context of previous bids then comes alive.

[Lurpoa]

jillybean, on 2011-May-18, 22:45, said:

---

System restrictions:
Playing 2/1
1♦:2♣ 2♠ shows extra's (K+)

No, I do not think your hand is good enough for a 2♠ rebid.: without that spade fit, your hand is pretty minimal. Don't you think so.
I would simply rebid 2♦ (there is also a point for 2NT, but I do not like that).

[Free]

1♦-2♣
2♦-2♠
3♠-...

Seems like an obvious start given the system restrictions.

[Fluffy]

I think monocled's and Free's start is what I'd do.

I have my thoughs about if after a round of cuebids 4♣(south) -4♦ (north), south should bid 4♥ or just 4NT. South has extras so taking control is fine. But he also has a lot of "showable" cards if partner keycards so 4♥ is a better approach, now if partner bids 4NT he will be able to show ♠AK, ♣A, and either ♥K or singleton, a very good description.

[whereagles]

This seems very simple.

- agree spades (simple)
- cue-bid
- 4NT
- signoff in 6 or make some sort of grand slam try if you feel lucky

[menggq]

P 1D P 2C
P 2S P 3S
P 4H P 4N
P 5S P 5N
P 6D P 7S ALL PASS

4H=cue bid
4N=RKCB
5S=2A+SQ
5N=All key cards held ,do u hv anything else?
6D=DK or bid 7S directly since u hv singleton C and DK.

[1eyedjack]

If I might add that I have some misgivings about the initial conditions. If your style of reversing after a 2/1 is to "show extras", I hardly think that a King sufficeth.
To my mind, a King "extra" puts you toward the top end of a hand that does not have extras. I may be in a minority here.

[jillybean]

1eyedjack, on 2011-May-19, 08:12, said:

If I might add that I have some misgivings about the initial conditions. If your style of reversing after a 2/1 is to "show extras", I hardly think that a King sufficeth.
To my mind, a King "extra" puts you toward the top end of a hand that does not have extras. I may be in a minority here.

"extras" = a King more than minimum, a good working 15 count. This to to avoid the 3N trap that you find yourself in when 2S can be bid on any hand.

For those who bid 1♦:1♠ 2♦, why 2♦ and not 2N?

[awm]

1♦ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♠
3♠ - 4♣
4♦ - 4NT
5♠ - 6♠

I don't really want to be in 7♠ on this hand; the grand has play but requires a lot of suit breaks.

Since opener showed a minimum by bidding 2♦ despite holding four spades, it seems easy to stay out of it.

Bidding 2NT with a singleton club is a definite distortion. I'm not opposed to making such distortions when there is no other appropriate call or when it keeps the auction low, but here it seems like you'd be wasting a lot of space to mis-describe the hand when you have a perfectly cheap and descriptive 2♦ rebid available.

[1eyedjack]

jillybean, on 2011-May-19, 08:55, said:

"extras" = a King more than minimum, a good working 15 count. This to to avoid the 3N trap that you find yourself in when 2S can be bid on any hand.

I wasn't suggesting that 2S should not show extras (although I know some who play it that way). I was suggestiong that if it does show extras then a mere King is not enough to qualify. At least, you can certainly agree that it is enough, but I don't see the point of having that agreement. If I show a hand without extras and then later if pressed show a hand that is then good in context, it would have the benefit that when I do show extras the hand is better defined.

I don't quite see how this relates to a "3N trap" but maybe that is just me.

[jillybean]

1eyedjack, on 2011-May-19, 10:03, said:

I wasn't suggesting that 2S should not show extras (although I know some who play it that way). I was suggestiong that if it does show extras then a mere King is not enough to qualify. At least, you can certainly agree that it is enough, but I don't see the point of having that agreement. If I show a hand without extras and then later if pressed show a hand that is then good in context, it would have the benefit that when I do show extras the hand is better defined.

I don't quite see how this relates to a "3N trap" but maybe that is just me.

I measure èxtra by a K+, a good 15(16) count, unsuitable for a 1nt opening. The 3nt trap is after 1D:2C 2M responder is likely to stop in 3N, wary of exploring further with 16 opposite what could be a 12 count. If responder knows that 2M shows 15+ she will be confident bidding beyond 3N.

[kenrexford]

First, a quick plug. I really like Golady here (Opener bids one-under on rebid). For that matter, I like unbalanced diamond openings. Using that approach (or at least Golady as indicated):

1♦-2♣(GF)
2♥(spades, no0t four hearts)-2♠(fit established)
2NT(not two of the top three spades)-3♣(two of the top three clubs)
3♦(two of the top three diamonds)-3♥(heart control)
3♠(one of the top three spades)-3NT(contextually serious)
4♦(A-K in diamonds, no club King)-4♥(Last Train -- tactical)
5♣(stiff is in clubs, accepting)-???

At this point, Responder know that Opener has Qxxx in spades, at least AK in diamonds (and at least five of them), a stiff club that is no better than the Jack, and a reason to accept Last Train (almost assuredly the heart Ace). If we assume the heart Ace, then the hands already produce four natural spades, two natural diamonds, two natural hearts, and a natural club, for 9 tricks. One ruff in some hand means 10 tricks. Playing diamonds for four tricks seems easy when looking at the J-10. So, the sole question seems to be whether partner's diamonds are better than advertised.

What to bid, though? 5♦ is out (no diamond card). 5♥ is out (no better than advertised earlier). 5♠ is obviously out. 6♣ is out (no better than advertised). 6♦ sounds like choice (and should be, IMO). Thus, I end up with either 5NT or 6♥. 5NT should not be choice when 6♦ works for that. 5NT invites the 6♦ cue I am hoping for. If I get that, I can cue 6♥ as Last Train to make sure partner has the heart Ace. In practice, 5NT yields 6♠, and I am done.

Back to other auctions. I think by agreements (guessing) I rebid 2♠ as Opener, raised to 3♠. I courtesy cue 4♦ as Opener. Responder should then bid past game.

If Opener only bids 2♦ and then raises 3♠, Opener MUST accept any sniffing from Responder, IMO.

[gnasher]

Playing non-serious:
1♦-2♣
2♠-3♠
3NT-4♣
4♦-4♥
4NT-5♣
5NT-6♠
I don't think responder should accept the grand-slam try opposite a non-serious try that can't bid 6♣.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

jillybean, on 2011-May-18, 22:45, said:

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Playing 2/1

Max Hardy style requires Opener to rebid 2D as a 1st priority with a 5+ card ♦ suit.
You still have the 2-level to agree on a 4-4 Major fit if it exists.
Rebidding the 4 card Sp suit first shows only a 4 card ♦ suit ( the rare exception is with 5s/6d ).
However, neither partner shows extras up to this point . Hardy considers knowledge of the ♦ suit length important to the auction.

North South
1D - 2C! ( GF )
2D - 2S ( 4 cards )
3S ( 4 cards ) - 4C ( mixed cue )
4D - 4NT
5S ( 2 + sQ ) - 5NT
6D ( dK but no cK ) - 6S ( won't venture the grand w/o the cK ) .

[han]

jillybean, on 2011-May-19, 08:55, said:

"extras" = a King more than minimum, a good working 15 count.

This seems like a contradiction to me. We have a 4-3-5-1 shape, how is a good working 12-count a minimum?

[jillybean]

han, on 2011-May-19, 23:25, said:

This seems like a contradiction to me. We have a 4-3-5-1 shape, how is a good working 12-count a minimum?

Sorry, I don't understand this. If this 12-count isn't your minimum, what is?