[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2011-May-18, 22:45, said:

---

System restrictions:
Playing 2/1
1♦:2♣ 2♠ shows extra's (K+)

1D - 2C
2D (1) - 2S
3S - 4C (2)
4D (2) - 4NT (3)
5S (3) - 6S

(1) Since your agreement is, that 2S showes K+, you have to bid 2D
And the singleton oppossite responders long suit is hardly a
reason to upgrade, that the Queen of spade is a working card
opener does not know yet.
(2) cues
(3) if you dont want to bid 4NT, you can make a last slam try with
4H, opener will accept

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenrexford]

Who in today's world does not open a 5431 hand with no rebid problems and 11 HCP that are all working?

[Phil]

jillybean, on 2011-May-20, 06:43, said:

Sorry, I don't understand this. If this 12-count isn't your minimum, what is?

---

[jillybean]

Phil, on 2011-May-20, 09:22, said:

---

I don't open this

[han]

I don't open that one but I would open most 4-3-5-1 11-counts. I'm certainly not going to pass 4-3-5-1 12-counts in order to wait for the good working one.

[aguahombre]

1eyedjack, on 2011-May-19, 00:06, said:

If you accept that it is borderline whether opener has extras - and some would I think regard it as borderline whether North has an opener without the Diamond King, then I suppose it could start
1D...2C
2D...2S
3S

And then responder would use serious 3N (or cue 4C if 3N is non-serious). Opener, having a very good hand in context of previous bids then comes alive.

This works out very well for Serious 3N, because it is Responder who has significant extras for 2/1, not opener. And, coincidentally, the spade raise to 3 in 1eyed's auction made responder next to act. Extras or not, opener should not rebid 2S holding 5+ in diamonds.

[jillybean]

han, on 2011-May-20, 10:15, said:

I don't open that one but I would open most 4-3-5-1 11-counts. I'm certainly not going to pass 4-3-5-1 12-counts in order to wait for the good working one.

I've missed something here, I am not suggesting you dont open these hands. What I am saying is that if you open your 4351 12 count
and partner makes a gf 2♣ bid you don't bid your 4card major unless you have "extras". My minumum hands have a range of 11-14 and my extras are 15+ hands.
My nice 4351 14 count with a stiff in partners suit doesnt quite make it.

[gwnn]

jilly.

han said that he would happily open

4-3-5-1

with a working 11 count. I think you would do so, too.

Hence a 4-3-5-1 working 14 count is a king about a minimum.

[MrAce]

jillybean, on 2011-May-20, 06:43, said:

Sorry, I don't understand this. If this 12-count isn't your minimum, what is?

This is a hand which is in the gray area. By telling a K better than minimum i assume u meant apprx 15-17 range.
If you open very weak hands this hand is definetely far from being a minimum. If your openings are like JEC, than this hand is definetely dead minimum.

[the hog]

1eyedjack, on 2011-May-19, 00:06, said:

If you accept that it is borderline whether opener has extras - and some would I think regard it as borderline whether North has an opener without the Diamond King, then I suppose it could start
1D...2C
2D...2S
3S

And then responder would use serious 3N (or cue 4C if 3N is non-serious). Opener, having a very good hand in context of previous bids then comes alive.

This sequence looks sensible and reasonable to me. IF, (and many don't you played splinters in opener's suit, you could also bid 4C over the 2S bid.

[cherdano]

jillybean, on 2011-May-20, 12:09, said:

My nice 4351 14 count with a stiff in partners suit doesnt quite make it.

And we are suggesting you should be less stringent. It's a good idea to have a fixed rule such as "i will show extras if i would still open this hand with a king less" - since your partner knows exactly which hands you open with, he or she will know exactly with which hands you will show extras.
If you subtract the ♦K here, then your hand is still an opening bid that you aren't ashamed of - yes, the singleton club is a minus, but the cards are working well otherwise. And of course the king in your 5-card suit is worth more than your average king.