[gnasher]

I think that the premise of Pearson Points is flawed. As I understand it, the idea is that when we are short in spades the opponents are quite likely to have a fit there.

However, a player with five spades in third seat will usually open either 1♠ or 2♠. Therefore even when I'm very short in spades that's not a strong indication that the opponents have a spade fit.

[Bbradley62]

 pooltuna, on 2011-May-16, 12:05, said:

 Bbradley62, on 2011-May-16, 11:37, said:

 pooltuna, on 2011-May-16, 10:53, said:

 rhm, on 2011-May-16, 06:39, said:

Rule of 15 does not apply to opening bids...

Run that by me again! why doesn't the Pearson count apply?

I believe Rainer is saying that if he would open a hand in first seat, he opens it in fourth seat, regardless of Pearson Points. Suppose: -, AQxxx, Kxxx, Kxxx.

AGAIN Pearson points are JUST A GUIDE. What would you do with Qx QJx KJxx KJxx?

No need to get your britches in a wad. I was just trying to clarify Rainer's post, without either agreeing or disagreeing with it, since you seemed to be asking.

[benlessard]

I would pass this one and dont think its close. It wont be too tough to make a sim on this 1 and i might make 1 later this week.

Quote

Opening against the ones I qualify as weakest, passing against strongest.

maybe im wrong but i would tend to do the opposite, the stronger the opps the crappier the openings /5 cards preempts giving partner more strenght.

As for rebidding 1S after 1H response i think its asking for troubles (3S/2Nt).

[OleBerg]

Omg, I pass a hand someone is bidding on. Calling the shrink first thing in the morning.

It's not that don't open crappy hands in 4.th seat, but this one simply has to many flaws: Low point count, a badly placed ace, not much defence against any major-suit contract and a rebid-problem.

The only bid with any appeal at all, would be a weak NT, hoping to play it there, and make.

[tolvyrj]

I would pass, not because or despite of the Pearson count, but because i have no idea what to do over oppos 2 of a major.

[rhm]

 han, on 2011-May-16, 12:04, said:

I think I'd pass. It's an 11-count and the opponents almost surely have a fit in a higher ranking suit than ours.

Saying that you open anything you'd open in earlier positions doesn't seem right to me. The situation is very different, so why should we bid the same? For example, if you open light in first and second, then that's exactly a reason not to open light in fourth.

Opening an "opening bid" in fourth seat regardless of the number of spades is of course quite sound, but you shouldn't read opening bid as "what I would open in first or second seat" if you open light. This is quite a light opening.

As fluffy points out, I would also open against weak opponents.

I agree that your strategy in 4th seat depends somewhat how light you open in second position.
I consider myself not to be a very light opener. I pass some 12 counts but I am aggressive with distributional hands containing first round controls, in particular with voids.
Maybe this is a matter of hand evaluation. I am surprised why people talk down this hand containing two aces.
Sure the hand would be even better if you had a black ace instead of the singleton ♥ ace.
But the trick taking potential of this hand is good and the hand is still worth more than its nominal 11 count and in my view there is no question whether to open this hand.
You can easily construct some suitable dummies where you can make a lot, for example give partner ♠x,♥xxxx,♦Kxx,♣AKxxx and 6♣ is a very good contract.
My style would not be to open this potential dummy. Admittedly this is a perfecto, but there are many hands where game will be reasonable.
If we have a fit in the minors and the bidding gets competitive we are certainly a favorite for a plus score at the three level. I doubt that passed opponents will and can outbid us at this level even with a fit in a major.

Of course opening in 4th position does not come with a guarantee for a plus score, but I like my chances.

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

 benlessard, on 2011-May-16, 13:26, said:

As for rebidding 1S after 1H response i think its asking for troubles (3S/2Nt).

I have made good experience with rebidding 1♠ with this particular distribution, certainly better ones than opening 1♦ or rebidding ♣. Partners do not raise a secondary suit with less than four cards and a 4-3 fit usually plays quite well with this distribution.
Does it work all the time? Of course not. Nothing works all the time.
But I am happy if others keep their prejudices against these actions. I need all the advantages I can get in this game.
As to jumping around as a passed hand (3S/2Nt) is the hallmark of an intermediate player, who thinks his hand has got better, because he has passed already.
I can give this sort of advice: If you think spades are so important in third or fourth position and opener bids them be aware at least that he can be quite weak. There is no justification for being aggressive in looking for close games as a passed hand if opener shows spades. Better for opener to be aggressive when looking for game.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

Rainer, after

pass-1♦
1♥-1♠

Are you saying that an average 4423 11-count should bid only 2♠, and an average 3424 11-count should bid only 1NT? If so, are you expecting opener to move with a 4342 14-count?

[Free]

I'd only open on a meaningless club evening because I came to play. Otherwise I'd just pass and don't think it's close.

[rhm]

 gnasher, on 2011-May-17, 04:55, said:

Rainer, after

pass-1♦
1♥-1♠

Are you saying that an average 4423 11-count should bid only 2♠, and an average 3424 11-count should bid only 1NT? If so, are you expecting opener to move with a 4342 14-count?

Yes and No.
This can happen if both are maximum. I think it is more important to ensure a plus score. With a balanced 14 count I would probably let it go, particularly at pairs. Vulnerable at IMPs could be an exception.
Being balanced and having more you would have opened 1NT. You should of course also upgrade a few good balanced 14 to 1NT.
(you could also lower your notrump range in third or fourth position if you can not stomach this). With good unbalanced distribution and 14 you will usually make at least another try.
This way you will miss a few games but not many, but you will also stay out of a lot bad ones.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

Is this something you do only after a fourth-seat opening, or would you do the same when responder is not a passed hand?

[dake50]

Minimum (sub-?) opening, weak majors -> Pass.

[rhm]

 gnasher, on 2011-May-17, 06:36, said:

Is this something you do only after a fourth-seat opening, or would you do the same when responder is not a passed hand?

I would invite (2NT/3♠) with a few hands I would never if I am passed. The reason is simply that opener's lower limit is higher when he has opened in first or second seat.

Rainer Herrmann