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Which is most "standard"? Checkback over 2NT rebid

Poll: 1C-1H-2NT... (28 member(s) have cast votes)

How to show both majors?

  1. 3D with 4-4 in majors, 3S shows 4/5+ (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. 3S with 4-4 in majors, 3D with 4/5+ (11 votes [39.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.29%

  3. Just bid 3NT with 4-4 in majors (3 votes [10.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.71%

  4. 3D with 4/4+, 3S shows 5-6 (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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#21 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2011-May-17, 19:31

Most people I know play transfers over a 2NT rebid.

e.g.

With 4-4 in majors:

1 1
2NT 3
3 3NT

With 5-4 in majors:

1 1
2NT 3
3 3
4

With 4 of a major, and a minor offering an alternate contract:

1 1
2NT 3*
3 3NT
pass**

*=5 diamonds and 4 hearts, not certain about 3NT
**=I am perfectly comfortable in 3NT thankyou

1 1
2NT 3*
3** 3NT

**=not hugely keen on playing in diamonds, but I do have some stuff in spades if that can help you to bid 3NT

1 1
2NT 3*
3** 3NT
4*** ...

*** Ok I lied. I LOVE diamonds!! 3 was actually a cue, just in case you have any slam interest now that we've got a fit

1 1
2NT 3
4* 4**
6

*= if you aren't certain about 3NT and have four or more clubs, I'd rather play in 5
**= cool, well I'm interested in slam and have a diamond control
I Transfers
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#22 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-May-18, 08:14

Quantumcat....

Here is a hand from Sept, 2009 about what to do over the 2NT rebid:

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry393388

Transfers ( among other methods ) were mentioned but no complete sequence was given.
How would you handle this using Transfers?



Edit: 1D open ( not 1C )
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#23 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-May-18, 13:49

How about making a splinter?

I also like to play transfers with the Wortel adjunct: 3C is either diamonds or a single suited slam try. Over 3D you bid 3H to show the slam try. 3D followed by 4D shows hearts and diamonds.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#24 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2011-May-18, 20:28

Here's what I was taught a few years ago:

1m - 1M - 2nt - ?

3c = Puppet to 3d
3d = NMF
3M = Natural, gf
3oM = Equal length (H then S = 4-4, S then H = 5-5)
3nt = Obv

1m - 1M - 2nt - 3c - 3d - ?

3M = To Play
3oM = Slam-try in om (m opener didn't open)
3nt = Slam-try in opener's m.
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#25 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2011-May-18, 21:40

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-May-18, 08:14, said:

How would you handle this using Transfers?


1 1
2NT 3
3 4
4NT 5
6

- Transferring then bidding game in that suit shows a bit of slam interest. He can't self-splinter in opener's suit. With no slam interest, bid 4 instead of 3.

- If opener would accept a slam invitation and he has three or more hearts, he would cue instead of accepting the transfer (this will also get them to game if responder had a really weak hand and was intending to sign-off in 3).

- Opener accepted the slam interest, and checked to make sure they weren't missing both K and A (unlikely if he has slam interest, but just in case).

However, if the opening was clubs:

1 1
2NT 4
4 5
6

- 4 is a self-splinter: slam-invitational or better in hearts.

- Opener cuebids (to accept the invitation if it is one) instead of keycarding, since responder is the one who knows what the values are.

- Responder obviously has some club losers, which opener can take care of.
I Transfers
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#26 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-May-19, 13:21

thx, Quantumcat for your additional sequences... including the "sign-off caution" for Opener when Responder transfers to his bid major ; and the "self-splinter " for Responder.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
y66 .... I use the same sequences for the 4-4 and 5-5 in the Majors ( in the context of the Wolff Relay ).
But I'm a tad worried about your inability to show a 4-5 or 5-4 since you use 3oM! as an om slamtry:
1m - 1M
2NT - 3C! ( force to 3D!)
3D! - 3oM! = slamtry in other-minor ( om )
- - - - - - - - -
Using Wolff, 3C always "asks for 4 cards Hts" so 3D ( by Responder ) is always natural, GF ( ... your relay unnecessarily "wastes" a bid .... although I see where you can "get out" at 3D your way ) .

With Wolff 3C! will show either a) sign-off, b ) the 4/5 or 5/4, or c) 4 cards M and 4+cards Cl:
1C - 1H
2NT - 3C!
3D!( no 4h ) - ??
3H = sign-off
3S = 4s/5h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced
3NT = 4h/4+c; 10-12 hcp
4NT = 4h/4+c; 13+ hcp, slammish

whereas:
1C - 1S
2NT - 3C!
3D!( no 4h ) - ??
3H = 5s/4h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced
3S = sign-off ( also a sign-off if Opener replied 3H = 4 cards Hts )
3NT = 4s/4+c; 10-12 hcp
4NT = 4s/4+c, 13+hcp, slammish

and:
1C/1D - 1H/1S
2NT - 3D = natural, 4h or 4s w/4+d, GF 7+hcp
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#27 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2011-June-03, 23:27

:D There are a lot of interesting special systems to play in this auction. In the simple game 3 shows 4-4 in the majors with no interest in 3 card support. Otherwise you bid the other minor.
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#28 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-June-04, 09:23

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-May-19, 13:21, said:

thx, Quantumcat for your additional sequences... including the "sign-off caution" for Opener when Responder transfers to his bid major ; and the "self-splinter " for Responder.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
y66 .... I use the same sequences for the 4-4 and 5-5 in the Majors ( in the context of the Wolff Relay ).
But I'm a tad worried about your inability to show a 4-5 or 5-4 since you use 3oM! as an om slamtry:
1m - 1M
2NT - 3C! ( force to 3D!)
3D! - 3oM! = slamtry in other-minor ( om )
- - - - - - - - -
Using Wolff, 3C always "asks for 4 cards Hts" so 3D ( by Responder ) is always natural, GF ( ... your relay unnecessarily "wastes" a bid .... although I see where you can "get out" at 3D your way ) .

With Wolff 3C! will show either a) sign-off, b ) the 4/5 or 5/4, or c) 4 cards M and 4+cards Cl:
1C - 1H
2NT - 3C!
3D!( no 4h ) - ??
3H = sign-off
3S = 4s/5h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced
3NT = 4h/4+c; 10-12 hcp
4NT = 4h/4+c; 13+ hcp, slammish

whereas:
1C - 1S
2NT - 3C!
3D!( no 3h ) - ??
3H = 5s/4h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced
3S = sign-off ( also a sign-off if Opener replied 3H = 4 cards Hts )
3NT = 4s/4+c; 10-12 hcp
4NT = 4s/4+c, 13+hcp, slammish

and:
1C/1D - 1H/1S
2NT - 3D = natural, 4h or 4s w/4+d, GF 7+hcp




Yes, very nice...
Make sure your partner's understanding of those sequences is the same.....

Bob Herreman
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#29 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-04, 15:01

 Quantumcat, on 2011-May-17, 19:31, said:

Most people I know play transfers over a 2NT rebid.

e.g.

With 4-4 in majors:

1 1
2NT 3
3 3NT

With 5-4 in majors:

1 1
2NT 3
3 3
4

With 4 of a major, and a minor offering an alternate contract:

1 1
2NT 3*
3 3NT
pass**

*=5 diamonds and 4 hearts, not certain about 3NT
**=I am perfectly comfortable in 3NT thankyou

1 1
2NT 3*
3** 3NT

**=not hugely keen on playing in diamonds, but I do have some stuff in spades if that can help you to bid 3NT

1 1
2NT 3*
3** 3NT
4*** ...

*** Ok I lied. I LOVE diamonds!! 3 was actually a cue, just in case you have any slam interest now that we've got a fit

1 1
2NT 3
4* 4**
6

*= if you aren't certain about 3NT and have four or more clubs, I'd rather play in 5
**= cool, well I'm interested in slam and have a diamond control


I assume

1--1
2NT--3
3-3NT asking for COG with only 5

But what do you do with 6 only game hands or slamish hands ? Perhaps xfer to and then bid 4 or 4x with slamis and just bid 4 over 2 NT with game only hands ?

Also what do these bids show in this method ?

1--1
2NT--4 or 4 or 4 or 4 ?

Thanks
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"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#30 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2011-June-04, 18:47

3C-3D,
.....3H-slam try with 6 hearts
.....3S-diamonds
.....3N-5 hearts, demands a correction to 4H with 3 (i.e. distributional hand and possible mild slam interest)

3D-3H
.....3S-4 spades, 5 hearts
.....3N-5 hearts, choice of games

3H-shows 4S/4H

3S-clubs
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#31 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-June-05, 04:24

 MrAce, on 2011-June-04, 15:01, said:

I assume

1--1
2NT--3
3-3NT asking for COG with only 5

Yes

Quote

But what do you do with 6 only game hands or slamish hands ? Perhaps xfer to and then bid 4 or 4x with slamis and just bid 4 over 2 NT with game only hands ?

That's what I play. Responder can also transfer to hearts and then cue-bid a minor.

Quote

Also what do these bids show in this method ?

1--1
2NT--4 or 4 or 4 or 4 ?

4, 4 and 4 should be whatever you normally use tham for when hearts are trumps. In my partnerships that means splinter, splinter and Exclusion respectively.
4 is to play, since transfer-and-raise is a slam try.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#32 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2011-June-05, 19:24

 MrAce, on 2011-June-04, 15:01, said:

I assume

1--1
2NT--3
3-3NT asking for COG with only 5


Yup - 5 hearts and game values only

Quote

But what do you do with 6 only game hands

1 1
2NT 4 = 6+ hearts, only game

Quote

or slamish hands ?

With 5 hearts and slam invite:
1 1
2NT 3
3 4NT

(1 1
2NT 4NT shows only four hearts and slam invite)

With five hearts and definite slam values:
1 1
2NT 3
3 5NT

(1 1
2NT 5NT shows only four hearts and definite slam values)


Quote

Also what do these bids show in this method ?
1--1
2NT--4 or 4 or 4 or 4?


4 = natural, slam invite in clubs
4 = self-splinter, slam interest or better
4 = Self-splinter (3 shows clubs), it would probably show a particular sort of hand (since you might have transferred to hearts then cued something), needs partnership discussion.

P.S. I want to add that all of the auctions get even easier when you play transfers over a club as well. If anyone wants any examples I am happy to provide plenty :-)
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#33 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-06, 17:04

Okay, thanks Andy and Quantum.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#34 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-December-19, 09:35



The discussion above shows clearly that "Wolff" is a very loose convention - it covers, mainly the idea to play 3 as a relay, but what then ? and when is it applicable ?

I have a very down to earth question, to those who designed the Convention card for BBO Advanced (2/1 GF). Could our Fred help here please ?



This convention card says: "Wolff over 2NT rebids."

This is mentionned under "Other..." and not under 1Minor or 1Major Opening, so I guess that their Wolff is as well over 1m1M2NT, as over 112NT.

Is my conclusion right ? Is it valid over 112NT ?

So, I expect that the 3C is the beginning of a sign-off sequence....

What is the meaning of the other responder bids, espiecially 3D: should I expect that to be a check-back ?

Please help a lost soul...



NB: in the mean time I refuse to play Wolff with a pick-up partner.





Bob Herreman
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