[Fil]

Hi everybody,
I was wondering if anybody has tried to play the Power System (absolute version) as presented in Klinger's book. Does it worth? Let me know your view and experience about the System

Thanks

Fil

[Free]

I have never played it, and I have NO idea what it is so I can't give you any opinion... Is there a summary somewhere?

[pclayton]

Fil, on Sep 15 2004, 10:09 AM, said:

Hi everybody,
I was wondering if anybody has tried to play the Power System (absolute version) as presented in Klinger's book. Does it worth? Let me know your view and experience about the System

Thanks

Fil

Its Power ACOL I believe.

It uses a 2♣ response to 1 of a major as invitational hands including 3 card limit raises. Also - 2♦ is an artificial game force.

I was about to post on what others thought of it as well. I see that there are similar threads on using 2♣ as an artificial GF and 2♦ as an artificial invite.

[hrothgar]

Pity that The Hog is off in Bali on vacation for 8 days...

Here's my perspective on Power:

Power is a VERY interesting bidding system. There are elements of the system that I love (and this is coming from a confirmed 4 card majors player).

With this said and done, I found the relay structure too complicated to really feel comfortable with and I have a GOOD memory for bdding systems. You'll have a lot of trouble fiding partners...

[Fil]

Thanks for your replies

The description of the Power System is:

1♣ forcing unlimited
1♦ 5+ 11-18
1♥/♠ 5+ 11-18
1NT 17-20 with various balanced patterns including 6332
2♣ natural 6♣+ or 5♣-4♦ 10-15

In general 2♣ to 1♦/♥/♠ is 10-12 no major and 2♦ is artificial game force. You can show hand patterns, the relay structure is quite similar in different situations (following the same principles as in such systems) but needs good memory. The point is that i hear and read a lot about systems like precision, moscito etc, but not for Power. Is it an oldfashioned system or a few people tried it? It is true that I wont find anybody to play except my regural partner but i cannot find any records/views so to try it?

Fil

[Flame]

Fil, on Sep 15 2004, 04:15 PM, said:

1♣ forcing unlimited
1♦ 5+ 11-18
1♥/♠ 5+ 11-18
1NT 17-20 with various balanced patterns including 6332
2♣ natural 6♣+ or 5♣-4♦ 10-15

What is your opening bid of 5C+4M ? (1c?)

[the hog]

"Pity that The Hog is off in Bali on vacation for 8 days...."
I leave in 1 hour.

I played the Power system for over 1 year; I also spent a lot of time in discussion about it with its inventor, Ron Klinger.

I really liked it, but it was a heck of a lot of work. You needed to have regular bidding sessions to practice. We were very succesful with it and it has been tried and proven in international competition.

Best bids in the system -
1D opening
2C G try relay over all 1 level openings.
As Richard mentioned, the relays are somewhat non intuitive, particularly 1C 2C. Klinger has included some great ideas though, and one good thing about it that it is a totally integrated system.

Incidentally it has NOTHING to do with Power Acol.

[tysen2k]

Flame, on Sep 15 2004, 04:34 PM, said:

Fil, on Sep 15 2004, 04:15 PM, said:

1♣ forcing unlimited
1♦ 5+ 11-18
1♥/♠ 5+ 11-18
1NT 17-20 with various balanced patterns including 6332
2♣ natural 6♣+ or 5♣-4♦ 10-15

What is your opening bid of 5C+4M ? (1c?)

Or balanced 11-16?

[laughter]

Hi Fil!

I quite like the ideas of Klinger and it is a pity that I haven't got the chances of reading his work on this Power System.

Some questions arise after reading your brief descriptions:

1. I wonder what other 2 level opening bids means?

2. If opening 1D/1M is limited to 18, then how does the system handle 19+? is it included in 1C opening?

3. If opening 1NT shows intermediate values, then is a weak NT opened 1C?

4. How does the system handle 4-4-4-1 as opening 2C/2D promises 5?

If my assumption in question 2 and 3 is true, then the system base is quite similar to Polish Club, and the nebulous 1C opening may be a weakness.

[SteelWheel]

I played Power (or as much of the system as I could get away with in ACBL events) some years back. IIRC, the answers to your questions are:

1. I believe that 2♦ was mini-multi. 2♥/2♠/2NT where various kinds of two suited opening with less than an opening bid. ♥=two suits same rank,♠=two suits of the same color, and 2NT=two suits of the same shape

2. Yes, 19+ unbalanced and 21+ balanced all fell under the 1♣ opening

3. One of the hand types shown by 1♣ was balanced hands up to 16 HCP

4. Any 4441 worth an opening bid was opened 1♣. The one other hand type was hands with primary clubs but unsuitable for the 2♣ opening

It was an enjoyable system to play but required a lot of memorization, and as a full-blown relay system, it was difficult to get it to pass muster here in ACBL-land. Part of the problem is that it doesn't seem to lend itself well to being implemented in pieces--it was hard to come up with a stripped down version that handles all the possible hand types well.

As for the Polish-like 1♣ open, that in and of itself seemed to present no particular problem. I know that some claim that multi 1♣ systems are theoretically unsound, but that's never made much sense to me. If so, then Precision or other strong club systems are also unsound in that they lose both minor suit opens, one to the strong hands, and one to hands where you open 1 ♦ signifying either diamonds, or both minors, or a hand unsuitable on HCP for whatever the partnership's 1NT opening shows.

There is a thread or two on RGB (search around for it), which inquires as to who is playing Power or if Klinger is still refining it nowadays. I believe one of Klinger's regular teammates claimed that some aspects had been changed rather radically from what was presented in the book. There was one pair of some renown in Australia or NZ still playing it though. Klinger himself has gone over to something ACOL-ish I believe, although using his Keri gadget in response to 1NT opens (replaces Stayman and transfers in one fell swoop--seemingly sound, no experience playing it to date).

btw, all of this is a potential plug for two systems which intrigue me very much: Don Varvel's "An Unassuming Club" (sort of a GCC-legal Polish Club variant, but using a 12-14 NT open, and a NATURAL 1♦ open), and also Lyle Poe's "Millennium Club" (a strong club system but with natural openings in the other three suits (11/12-19), and using mostly transfer responses to the 1♣ open.

If anyone's seriously interested in playing one of these on BBO sometime (especially if potentially available for ACBL events in the Northeast US) let me know via email to: stwheel@optonline.net or post here.

[Fil]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses.

Seems that the power system is uknown to the most of the bridge people, and only a few have tried it in real action. It is true that the relay structure is memory consuming, but common in a lot of sequences. You have to play it with your regural parnter, hard to find somebody else.
There is only one reference in the web, a ten lines structure, nothing much to said. Still the book is the only known resourse.

If I' ll try it I let you know how it's going.

Thnks again

Fil