[Bbradley62]

Individual Tournament, matchpoints

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Our auction was:

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Conversation following the hand:
North: Gee, partner... what would Neg Dble have meant over 2♣?
South: that u are stupid to bid dbl after 2♣?
North: reopen is required
North: you might have had a penalty double
South: u should bid 2♦ and not Dbl..idiot
North: no, you could easily have wanted to penalty double them
South: if could be very rich with your stupidity

[Hanoi5]

Stop playing with South, s/he has a clear double over 2♣.

[pooltuna]

you forgot to mention that the skill level self assessment was WC

[jdeegan]

Partner had a textbook negative double over 2♣ to which you will respond 2♦. For the same reason, you should have reopened with 2♦. This is just common sense safety first. Sure, once in a while pard will have a brutal ♣ stack, and you will miss a big penalty. But, you don't particularly like your hand for defense and playing a very possible 4-3 major suit fit is not inviting either. Just get out with the obvious bid and don't sweat unsolicited bridge lessons from fools. You need a thick skin to play in BBO indys, but they can be a lot of fun.

[Fluffy]

obviously with such manners you should stop playing with south even if his skill level is a clon or (insert whatever name ou worship).

I always go for the penalty and reopen with double, even with 3262 I would double but that is probably not standard.

All of this is irrelevant given that south had the textbook hand for a take out double and failed to use it. He should go back to the bridge school.

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on 2011-May-07, 04:04, said:

obviously with such manners you should stop playing with south even if his skill level is a clon or (insert whatever name ou worship).

I think South might think the same about North.

[Fluffy]

I don't understand, can you please elaborate?

[Lurpoa]

Bbradley62, on 2011-May-06, 18:28, said:

Individual Tournament, matchpoints

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Our auction was:

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Conversation following the hand:
North: Gee, partner... what would Neg Dble have meant over 2♣?
South: that u are stupid to bid dbl after 2♣?
North: reopen is required
North: you might have had a penalty double
South: u should bid 2♦ and not Dbl..idiot
North: no, you could easily have wanted to penalty double them
South: if could be very rich with your stupidity

Over 2♣ your partner has to double.

Else you will run into problems. And that is what happened.

[han]

You play in an individual tournament with beginners and then you berate partner for being a beginner. I agree with gnasher.

[phil_20686]

jdeegan, on 2011-May-06, 21:50, said:

Partner had a textbook negative double over 2♣ to which you will respond 2♦. For the same reason, you should have reopened with 2♦. This is just common sense safety first. Sure, once in a while pard will have a brutal ♣ stack, and you will miss a big penalty. But, you don't particularly like your hand for defense and playing a very possible 4-3 major suit fit is not inviting either. Just get out with the obvious bid and don't sweat unsolicited bridge lessons from fools. You need a thick skin to play in BBO indys, but they can be a lot of fun.

Disagree strongly with this. dble gains on the penalty hands, but also on any hands where 2M plays better than 2d. Which it may well do. Espeically at MP when you can maybe ruff clubs in the short hand and get 140 vs 110 or 130. Further, there is no reason that partner cannot be weak and single suited, you could conceivably have game in a major opposite: x KJxxxx Ax xxxx or similar (about the maximum that cannot afford a forcing free bid). Obviously if you play NFB, then the odds will change.

To reopen with dble as north looks completely normal.

[jdeegan]

phil_20686, on 2011-May-07, 06:29, said:

Disagree strongly with this. dble gains on the penalty hands, but also on any hands where 2M plays better than 2d. Which it may well do. Espeically at MP when you can maybe ruff clubs in the short hand and get 140 vs 110 or 130. Further, there is no reason that partner cannot be weak and single suited, you could conceivably have game in a major opposite: x KJxxxx Ax xxxx or similar (about the maximum that cannot afford a forcing free bid). Obviously if you play NFB, then the odds will change.

To reopen with dble as north looks completely normal.

Most players would double back in with the north hand. I just prefer 2♦ as safer. On the actual hand, pard is at the bottom in high cards for a neg dbl, so his pass isn't that terrible imho. A 4-3 major fit is OK at the two level since the 3 card holding takes the tap, but at the 3 level the LOTT bites you as it did on the actual hand. Plus, if pard has a marginal penalty pass of 2♣, my hand could be a trap with unexpectedly long ♦ and only two aceless quick tricks.

[han]

jdeegan, on 2011-May-07, 10:36, said:

Most players would double back in with the north hand. I just prefer 2♦ as safer.

That sounds quite different from your earlier "you should bid 2D", which I also strongly disagreed with.

Quote

On the actual hand, pard is at the bottom in high cards for a neg dbl, so his pass isn't that terrible imho.

Not even close, I consider partner's pass is atrocious.

[hatchett]

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only two aceless quick tricks

So the ♥A is a mirage?

[Free]

South has the perfect shape and enough strength to Dbl, pass is ridiculous. I would reopen the North hand with 2♦, but I wouldn't mind Dbl at all.

If you're playing in an indi just shut up and play the next board. You pointed a finger to someone who isn't interested in your lessons and just had to play a ridiculous contract, what did you expect?

[Gerben42]

The auction should go:

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What South was doing was just weird. Still, if you are playing with a pickup partner, you do not say anything. There is no way you can teach all of them and many of them don't want to be taught.

[ahydra]

In "old-fashioned" bridge a reopening X should show 16+, so you were lucky not to be in 3NT These days it does seem increasingly common to re-open-with-double as opener with fewer and fewer points. My personal style though is to do things sort-of the old fashioned way, where you just make the same bid you were planning to make without interference, otherwise double (no stop) or bid NT (stop) if they bid your suit. So the reopening X would be a good 14 and up, I guess, and hence I bid 2D here.

However South's lack of a negative double is just ridiculous - 4 cards in BOTH majors, what else could he want?!

ahydra

[mfa1010]

Reopen X because of the honour structure. With same shape and all diamonds and bad defense, I would bid 2♦.

[shintaro]

ahydra, on 2011-May-10, 12:50, said:

In "old-fashioned" bridge a reopening X should show 16+, so you were lucky not to be in 3NT These days it does seem increasingly common to re-open-with-double as opener with fewer and fewer points. My personal style though is to do things sort-of the old fashioned way, where you just make the same bid you were planning to make without interference, otherwise double (no stop) or bid NT (stop) if they bid your suit. So the reopening X would be a good 14 and up, I guess, and hence I bid 2D here.

However South's lack of a negative double is just ridiculous - 4 cards in BOTH majors, what else could he want?!

ahydra

South obviously is a World Class Grand Master (in his/her mind) but a Moron is nearer the mark South should Negative Double with the 2 4 majors

[mcphee]

The remark about re-bidding 2D because it is safer is not at all practical. Less safe could be a better choice of wording. The S hand for example could easily have a hand not suitable to make a bid with a 5 card major and a stiff D. In addition the N hand is quite suitable to defend 2C should partner choose to pass the double.

The S players standards are considerably higher than most to have not made a neg dble to start. How hard could that have been?

As for the banter, when you saw the players hand surely this was the best time to stop any discussion. Not supposed to be able to teach old dogs new tricks, with dead ones you have zero chance.

[Quantumcat]

Reopening doesn't require any sort of HCP. It just requires short clubs and not awful defense. If you require a particular HCP range then your poor partner who could otherwise be licking his lips and rubbing his hands in glee now is scared of it getting passed out and has to come up with a bid, and the opponents get away with complete murder.

I would never pass out an overcall like that unless I had longish clubs, which would mean partner is very unlikely to have a trap pass and also that we probably have more defense than offence.

If I have short clubs but very poor defence I'll find a suit bid.