[gurgistan]

---

Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.

[JLOGIC]

1S-1N-3H-3S-4H-p on this hand. 3N is a very bad bid.

But, you are right, it is a general problem that the jumpshift to 3H can be 4 or 5 so sometimes a 5-3 fit is missed when partner has a 3N bid. A "common" treatment around here is to use an artificial 1S-1N-3C bid as clubs, or a jump shift with 4 hearts, or a spade 1 suiter, so that 1S-1N-3H can be 5. Without artificiality, you have to live with missing your fit sometimes I guess.

[gwnn]

3NT says "I don't care about your spades! I don't care about your hearts! we're playing here!"

you have an almost-fit in spades and an almost-fit in hearts, and you don't have a club stopper and the diamond stopper is a little suit-oriented.

so 3NT is a bad bid. 3♠ is just waiting. that's what you should do.

[gurgistan]

Thanks guys!

I think I get it.

3♠ is the bid as with his strong jump shift, I would bid 4♠ with 3-card support so 3♠ shows only 2-card support and Partner should not go to 4♠, he would bid 3N and we are right-sided.

Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4♥ cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.

[JLOGIC]

gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 05:39, said:

Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4♥ cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.

Huh? Over 3S, partner would bid 4H, showing 5-5, which you would pass.

[gwnn]

gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 05:39, said:

Thanks guys!

you're welcome, but..

Quote

I think I get it.

I'm afraid not

Quote

3♠ is the bid as with his strong jump shift, I would bid 4♠ with 3-card support so 3♠ shows only 2-card support

No. Some people like to bid 4♠ with 3 spades but 10-12 points, but it's probably not standard. Just bid 3♠ with 2-3 spades, and sometimes you will have to bid 3♠ even with a singleton. It's a waiting bid.

Quote

and Partner should not go to 4♠, he would bid 3N and we are right-sided.

As JLOGIC above said, no, he wouldn't. He would bid 4♠ with 6-4 or 4♥ with 5-5, so in this case he would bid 4♥.

Quote

Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4♥ cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.

JLOGIC covered this well.

[gurgistan]

I love this game. There is so much to learn.

I am indebted to all who replied.

[MrAce]

JLOGIC, on 2011-April-20, 04:48, said:

A "common" treatment around here is to use an artificial 1S-1N-3C bid as clubs, or a jump shift with 4 hearts, or a spade 1 suiter, so that 1S-1N-3H can be 5.

Justin, i did not know this and liked it. How does it go after 3♣ ? Does responder relay ?

[gwnn]

http://justinlall.wo...9/04/04/hearts/

oh I thought there were more details. anyway nice explanatory post

[Quantumcat]

It could go

1♠ - 1NT
3♥ - 3♠
4♥ - Pass

[JLOGIC]

MrAce, on 2011-April-20, 14:40, said:

Justin, i did not know this and liked it. How does it go after 3♣ ? Does responder relay ?

Responder asks with 3D, but should be careful to remember to bid 3H rather than 3D if he has 5+ hearts. This is so he can still get to hearts opp 5314/6304/5305, and also if partner has a 1 suiter in spades with 3 hearts and hearts is right.

[Fluffy]

1♠-1NT
2NT

GF balanced or 5♠+4 red, 3♣ asks.

Pretty simple.

You can also throw in the 6+ spades GF hand if you need to.

[FrancesHinden]

or
1S - 1NT
3C = game forcing with diamonds
3D = game forcing with hearts
3H = 5-5 invitational
3S = game forcing with spades

(good hands with clubs start with 2C, which is multi-way and forcing)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

With the given hand, you can bid 4H over the 3NT response,
that will show at least show 5-5, the justification being
the concentration of values.

If you play some art. stuff after the forcing NT, it should
be possible to show the 5-5 pattern.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[TWO4BRIDGE]

gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 04:00, said:

---

Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.

Here is an interesting suggestion by straube for the sequence
1S - 1NT!, 3H - ?? from Feb, 2010:

http://www.bridgebas...-to-jump-shift/

He uses 3S! ( by Responder ) as a relay so he can have 2-ways to make 4-level bids :

1S-1N, 3H-3S!, 3N! ( asks for more info ) - ??
.....4C-two-fit in spades
..........4H-5/5
.....4D-medium hand for hearts
.....4H-weak hand for hearts

1S-1N, 3H-3S!, ??
.....4C-7/4 ( I think he meant this as 7/5 )
.....4D-6/5
.....4H-5/5 stronger ( than above 4H = 5/5 )
.....

1S-1N, 3H- ??
.....3N-good hand, no fit
.....4m-good hand, minor
.....4M-good hand, major

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on 2011-April-20, 17:38, said:

Responder asks with 3D, but should be careful to remember to bid 3H rather than 3D if he has 5+ hearts. This is so he can still get to hearts opp 5314/6304/5305, and also if partner has a 1 suiter in spades with 3 hearts and hearts is right.

A tweak that I play is that responder can skip the relay with 3 spades (3♠ over 3♣ is limit, 4♠ is the junk raise / semi-psyche). Therefore, if responder gives delayed preference, opener knows its based on doubleton support.

[the hog]

gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 04:00, said:

---

Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.

Your partner should bid 3S over 3H. You have an obvious 4H bid.