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6511 5 count in fourth seat Can it be right to bid?

Poll: 6511 5 count in fourth seat (26 member(s) have cast votes)

P-P-P-? A 10 6 4 3 2 / J 8 6 5 2 / 5 / 2

  1. Pass (21 votes [80.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.77%

  2. 1H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 1S (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  4. 2H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 2S (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  6. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 06:57


IMPed pairs.
Unknown opponents and partner: all three are capable of passing on a balanced 12HCP.
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 08:04

if partner is a dinosaur I might open, but on a normal basis I would pass
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#3 User is offline   SimonFa 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 08:26

Pass.

If partner has anything less than 12 points, and even with 12 points, it looks like they are missing a game. Why give them a second bite of the cherry on the off chance you and partner have a fit in the Majors?
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#4 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 08:29

Two of them have 12, one has 11 and my pard is a cinch to overbid or double them in something we can't beat.

I pass but would open 4♠ before anything else.
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#5 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 13:19

Yes we are very likely to be missing a major partscore and even a game on a lucky day but i think bidding has more downsides to it than passing. I'd pass.

The problem with the 12 hcp passers is, they think they have immunity from gravity once they pass and partner opens. They bid forever.
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#6 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 14:00

Is there a time limit? PASS!
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 15:45

Very interesting.

I will open, we have both majors. We probably have a good 2 or 3M contract. If partner has some superfit for a major and forces to game, we will probably make.

Bad will be 3m= by opps or 3M-1 by us, I will assume that risk.
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#8 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 15:57

The side with the majority of points (EW) needs a plus score to have a good result, so I pass.
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#9 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 17:58

Pass and this requires little thought. Count how many points the opps have!
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#10 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 18:11

Someone else at the table is a very conservative opener, and the odds are 2:1 that it's one of the opponents.

#11 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 18:12

2♠.

I am unconvinced by the preceding learned analyses of how many points everyone has. It may be hard for opponents to act over this since I have hearts and they probably don't have much shape. And if anyone has a game it is more likely to be us than them.
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#12 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-April-20, 21:13

 gwnn, on 2011-April-20, 15:45, said:

Very interesting.

I will open, we have both majors. We probably have a good 2 or 3M contract. If partner has some superfit for a major and forces to game, we will probably make.

Bad will be 3m= by opps or 3M-1 by us, I will assume that risk.


Oh... if i believed these will be the only bad outcomes, i would have opened this, but i am pretty confident there are much worse outcomes available than 3M-1 and/or they making 3♣, why would i take that risk at imps ?
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#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-April-21, 00:13

I know you know this, but....

There's always some bad outcomes. The question is how to weigh them. The reason you take a risk is that you believe the rewards (times the probabilities) outweigh the risks. When I said "bad will be..." I actually meant "bad cases which will happen more than a few % of the times are...". There's always a few quite bad cases.

I don't think opps will try to find a game here more than 1% of the hands, they're both passed hands and they don't have a fit in a major. I don't think opps will double us in game.
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#14 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2011-April-21, 01:11

Worst case is where partner has 11, both opps have 12 and 3N is -1 at every other table :)

I'd consider 2♠ or 3♠, but not consider opening at the one level. I'm not going to let opps play anything below 3N/4♣ and 2 passed hands don't bid 3N very often.
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#15 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2011-April-21, 12:57

I have 2♥, 5/5 in hearts and another - but even with this weapon, p will expect a stronger hand from me in 4th seat. So there are too many downsides to bidding for me.
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