[swanway]

English Bridge Union

Can you please settle a discussion we are having regarding signals.
Lets say the contract is 4S. Your partner makes an opening lead of the KH. You hold A 8 2 of hearts and intend to play the 8H (encouraging). However when dummy goes down there is a singleton heart therefore there is no point in encouraging your partner to continue with the hearts. Can you now signal with the 8H asking partner to lead a diamond (suit preference). Is this allowed? Would it be legal if it was written on your systems card?

[pran]

swanway, on 2011-April-18, 23:25, said:

English Bridge Union

Can you please settle a discussion we are having regarding signals.
Lets say the contract is 4S. Your partner makes an opening lead of the KH. You hold A 8 2 of hearts and intend to play the 8H (encouraging). However when dummy goes down there is a singleton heart therefore there is no point in encouraging your partner to continue with the hearts. Can you now signal with the 8H asking partner to lead a diamond (suit preference). Is this allowed? Would it be legal if it was written on your systems card?

I don't know if EBU has special regulations in this respect, but that would surprise me.

Agreements that signals are varied (i.e. different) depending on the cards revealed in dummy after the opening lead are fully legal. Such agreements must of course be disclosed like any other partnership understandings.

[mjj29]

swanway, on 2011-April-18, 23:25, said:

English Bridge Union

Can you please settle a discussion we are having regarding signals.
Lets say the contract is 4S. Your partner makes an opening lead of the KH. You hold A 8 2 of hearts and intend to play the 8H (encouraging). However when dummy goes down there is a singleton heart therefore there is no point in encouraging your partner to continue with the hearts. Can you now signal with the 8H asking partner to lead a diamond (suit preference). Is this allowed? Would it be legal if it was written on your systems card?

Yes, it's perfectly legal. Writing something like "suit preference where obvious" under 'other agreements about carding' (or whatever that box is called) is probably fine - that's a completely normal thing to do with a stiff on table.

[swanway]

Thank you for your replies. I am still a littel confused.

11R 3 EBU Orange Book says:

Dual meaning signals

Dual meaning signals (when following suit) are not permitted.

Examples of prohibited dual meaning signals

(a)One message (typically attitude) is given according to whether the card played is odd or even; a different message (typically suit preference)is given according to whether the card played is high or low.

(b)One message (typically attitude) is given if a specific card (say a 6 or a 7)is played; a different message (typically suit preference) is given if any other card is played.

[bluejak]

In different situations you play different agreements. That is legal and normal. For example, you lead fourth highest against no-trumps, third and lowest against suit. That is not Dual meaning.

But if when you play a card it has two meanings dependent on different things it is Dual meaning, That is not allowed for signals, though it is for discards. For example if a six means I do not like the suit discarded [odd rather than even] and I prefer spades [six rather than two] that is dual meaning.

The thread is about playing different things in different situations, which is legal. If you cash an ace, and partner plays suit preference when there is a singleton in dummy, count otherwise, that is legal because those are your agreements, and they are not dual meaning. It is also a very common pair of agreements.

[FrancesHinden]

In summary: if one card has two meanings at the same time, that is dual meaning.
If one card has a different meaning depending on the situation that is a single meaning.

p.s. while this is a common agreement, it's not universal and hence still needs to be clearly disclosed (no relying on 'general bridge knowledge'). For example, I don't have this agreement in all situations.

[AlexJonson]

Just to make sure I'm not confused.

If my card says something like 'attitude, can be count on partners lead.

But we have suit preference elsewhere, and we both read bridge sites/mags about plays when normal signals
are not useful (but there is nothing on our card and we haven't discussed it).
So

1. Do we have illegal signals

2. Do we have a bit of a failure to disclose

3. (Eek) are we just playing Bridge according to our SC

[bluejak]

Certainly not illegal since there are no dual meaning signals.

Failure to disclose might be the case. But it might not. It depends somewhat on your answers to questions.