[Free]

I would never pass 3NT, but that's just me apparently... I think a 4♠ rebid is pretty normal, we're not strong enough for 4♦.

[bluejak]

barmar, on 2011-April-18, 21:17, said:

When was that stated? I can't find any references to EBU or England in the thread (except that this is where the OP lives).

I said "If this was in ACBL ...". If not, then my comment doesn't apply.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

You are right, I am wrong, sorry. Please please please please will people put their jurisdiction when asking questions. You are right, I saw the word 'England' somewhere and assumed the OP said it came from England: no he did not.

But I still stand by my answers. You can poll easily enough by giving the hand, saying RHO opened 2♥, saying you bid 3♥, alerted or not according to jurisdiction, and explained as spades and another. What do you bid over 3NT?

[Cyberyeti]

bluejak, on 2011-April-19, 08:45, said:

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

You are right, I am wrong, sorry. Please please please please will people put their jurisdiction when asking questions. You are right, I saw the word 'England' somewhere and assumed the OP said it came from England: no he did not.

But I still stand by my answers. You can poll easily enough by giving the hand, saying RHO opened 2♥, saying you bid 3♥, alerted or not according to jurisdiction, and explained as spades and another. What do you bid over 3NT?

You did know it was from England as a) you know who I am, and b) I said it was from Norfolk in the post above the offending one of yours, and you knew which one. I rather assumed that putting England in my profile would be enough for people to assume it was EBU as I'd obviously say if I was playing somewhere else.

[RMB1]

barmar, on 2011-April-18, 21:17, said:

When was that stated? I can't find any references to EBU or England in the thread (except that this is where the OP lives).

The OPer told me this was from a county match featuring Norfolk (I assumed the one in England, although there is a Norfolk in Virginia, USA).

[Echognome]

I would also like to know what some other bids mean in our system. If I play that 3♥ is the only way to bid Michael's, then I would tend to pass here, as I need a way to show a stronger Michael's hand. I play both a direct cuebid as Michael's (intermediate) and Leaping Michael's (strong), then I can bid here to show my extra distribution.

[blackshoe]

There are also Norfolks in Nebraska, Massachusetts, and Connecticut.

It's "Michaels", not "Michael's", although since his name was Mike Michaels I suppose "Michael's" isn't too surprising.

[gordontd]

blackshoe, on 2011-April-19, 13:55, said:

It's "Michaels", not "Michael's", although since his name was Mike Michaels I suppose "Michael's" isn't too surprising.

Shouldn't it be Michaels'?

[blackshoe]

I suppose technically one could make a case for it, but then we'd have "Leaping Michaels'", and that doesn't seem right either.

Every other convention, as far as I can remember, named after a person is so named with just the person's last name, which in this case is "Michaels".

[bluejak]

Lionel?

[blackshoe]

Okay, I didn't remember that one. Does one exception disprove the rule?

[Echognome]

Mea culpa on Michaels vs Michael's. But shame on the two moderators for letting the post drift so off topic.

[blackshoe]

ROFL.

If we've agreed to play Michaels over a weak 2, I hope we've discussed how to ask for the minor. If we haven't, then by analogy with Michaels over a one level bid, 3NT asks for the minor. So I bid 4♦, and yes, it's routine.

I would prefer, though, not to play stupid conventions.

[gordontd]

blackshoe, on 2011-April-19, 19:50, said:

If we've agreed to play Michaels over a weak 2, I hope we've discussed how to ask for the minor. If we haven't, then by analogy with Michaels over a one level bid, 3NT asks for the minor.

I think that's a poor analogy: without specific agreement to the contrary, a bid of 3NT is always an offer to play there.

[blackshoe]

Without specific agreement, any bid is an offer to play there. 3NT is only "special" because it's game. But this is why 3♥/2♥ as Michaels is stupid. How do you find out which minor partner has? Bid 4♣? Is 4♣ forcing? NF? Whichever one it is, how do you handle the other type?

[bluejak]

I do not play 3♥ over 2♥ as Michaels myself. But stupid seems a bit harsh. Of course it is easy to say so and then point out the disadvantages. But what about the advantages? If you use Leaping Michaels how do you play in 3NT when that is correct? How do you play in 3♠ when that is correct?

Michaels 3♥ is like many conventions: it has pluses and minuses: you balance the one against the other.

Another advantage of Michaels is for the unscientific player who does not play too many conventions. He is likely to forget Leaping Michaels, but if he plays Michaels over 1♥ it is easy to remember to also play it over 2♥.

A poor convention? Yes, possibly so, but not a stupid one.

[blackshoe]

<shrug> There are better alternatives. It may take a little more effort to play them (and to remember what you're playing) but it's worth the effort.