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Delayed double after 2-way Checkback

#1 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 05:58

1   pass 1 pass
1NT pass 2 pass
2   dbl

2 forces 2, and is either a signoff in diamonds or an invitational hand with 5+ spades.

What should double mean?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 06:17

Given we had two chances to bid but didn't I'd say this is some sort of lead director with diamonds.
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 07:31

i'll go for take-out of diamonds - something like a 3415 14 count.
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#4 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 07:48

Take-out would be default in my system, as we double a denomination they might want to play in.

Playing it two-way sounds reasonable. A little risky though, to try without prior discussion, I'd think.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 14:02

I think it should be takeout, but I think I would avoid making this double with my partner.

I cannot imagine making a lead directing double here. I can't have a good enough 5-card suit because I would overcall. Doubling on a good 4-card suit is quite risky because the opponents might well be planning to play 2D.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-April-13, 14:48

I dunno the vulnerability but without agreement i would definetely take it as lead directing. A hand like x xx KJTxx xxxxx for example which i would not consider overcalling at any vulnerability. I am scared that in contract our can go bye bye on if pd doesn't start with his unprotected A especially when 2 goes silent in front of us...and some more reasons...

Anyway, what does playing this as take out for serve for ?? Seriously..
Responder bid 2 forcing a 2 and will tell his intention...He has a hand he wants to sign off in 2 which makes a take out double for reasonable, however for the rest you are sticking your finger into 220 V socket, with one of your suits opened by RHO , other suit is bid by LHO and they have at least 23-24 hcp if not more and you are not even sure if they have a fit yet ! At the top of the fact that you did not even discuss this with pd.
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#7 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 02:09

This is probably related to an auction in a match earlier this week where gnasher was at the other table. The auction at our table was not exactly as he has put it, which is slightly relevant. The idea that double is a lead director against 3NT is odd, because you are on lead against 3NT. The actual auction was this:

1C - 1H
1S - 2C
2D - ?

1C = may be a doubleton
1H = 4+ spades
1S = either any weak NT without 4 spades, or an unbalanced hand with 3 spades
2C = either a sign-off in diamonds, or invitational with exactly 5 spades, or some game forces with 5 spades
2D = any weak NT

Now partner is likely to be on lead against 3NT. Is it still take-out of diamonds?
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#8 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 03:59

I think it should still be takeout.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 04:50

 FrancesHinden, on 2011-April-14, 02:09, said:

The idea that double is a lead director against 3NT is odd, because you are on lead against 3NT.


It is odd that u say this, because;

-Nobody said it was a lead director dbl against 3 NT.

-If thats not what u meant, lead directing doubles are not restricted to NT contracts.

-If thats not what u meant either, this auction does not always end up in 3 NT.

:)
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#10 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 05:03

 gnasher, on 2011-April-13, 05:58, said:

1   pass 1 pass
1NT pass 2 pass
2   dbl

2 forces 2, and is either a signoff in diamonds or an invitational hand with 5+ spades.

What should double mean?

You've had a couple of opportunities to show diamonds, but this is your first chance to show a takeout of diamonds.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 05:10

For ease of memory, I'd want double to have the same meaning in both auctions.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-April-14, 09:02

Opponents are not finding their S:3-4 fast enough. Here, have a shot at me.
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#13 User is offline   menggq 

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Posted 2011-May-11, 02:41

1♣ pass 1♠ pass
1NT pass 2♣ pass
2♦ dbl

2♣ forces 2♦, and is either a signoff in diamonds or an invitational hand with 5+ spades.

What should double mean?

but also 4+ balance inv hand etc...

here 2 DBL=good but i wonder if hv good why not bid 1 or 2weak jump after 1? so it might mean others:T/O for ?show /?if 2will be sigh off DBL=T/O for ?
anyway this is a good question that's not easy to answer and need pd discuss deeply.
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