[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♦
 Pass  1♥    Pass  2NT
 Pass  3♥    Pass  4♣
 Pass  4NT   Pass  5♠
 Pass  5NT   Pass  6♣
 Pass  6♥    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Hi can you help me out here please.

on this biiding 5nt asks for me to bid my first K, I am not 100% happy with this , but that is our agreement.

Can you tell me what options I have bidding after 5nt and should I be in grand slam?

Thanks

[Free]

When using the normal stuff, your partner can still ask about a King by bidding that suit. Here 6♦ would ask to bid 7♥ with ♦K. The problem with this hand is not if you have or have not the ♦K, but if you also have the ♦J! And I don't see any immediate sollution to that problem unless starting a full relay system...

You can clearly see the problem if partner needs ♠K. Here it's clear he needs it to be in grand, but if you had answered 6♦ instead of 6♣, then you still might miss the grand, since you don't know if partner was searching for ♣K or ♠K.
A sollution is to play Kickback: use 4♠ as RKC ♥ (when there's no confusion possible) instead of 4NT. Then you can ask for Kings with 5♠ and you can show what King(s) you have immediatly:
5NT = 0/3 Kings
6m = that King or the 2 other Kings
6♥ = ♠K or both minor Kings
Usually it should be clear what you have, and otherwise you can still use the next bid to ask if partner has 2 (or 3) Kings.

[skorchev]

1.) When you have points, good fit (and knowledge(sometimes)) for grand slam you should play it.

-You have 32 hcp, 5kc, Queen of trump.
-You have a GOOD fit.
=> Play grand slam.

There are 13 easy tricks - 1♠+6♥+4♦+2♣, so you don't need knowledge to made it. The once problem is how to bid it.
This bidding looks good for me except 6♣. In my club standard 5NT is invite for grand slam and the options are direct bid at 6/7 level on the trump or bid any extra values.
With 4♣ South shows his control ♣ and by North's cards 4♣ means K♣ for sure (South can't has a singleton ♣ because he bid 2NT(bal hand)) => 6♣ doesn't show nothing more and that's an empty bid. If you play "my" model after 5NT you should bid 6♦(extra values) and 6♣ would means ♣KQ at least. Now when North knows South's extra values in ♦ then he can bid 7♥.


Stefan

[sceptic]

another question I have now, is I bid 4!C showing first or second round control.

SO this means after 5NT (we both know I have K!C as the 5NT shows all 5 keys, so should I have bid 6!D showing K of diamond?

[sceptic]

actually I know I have K clubs my p could think I have a singleton

[Free]

Sceptic, you don't bid 2NT with a singleton ♣. So you must have the K, and show ♦K immediatly imo.

[sceptic]

hehe ok point taken

[Fluffy]

regardlss of how you answer 5NT, 5nt means a 7 trtial, therefore you ahve all the aces, so when you have the rest don´t bother abotu answering and bid 7.

The problem here is you have ♦J wich is the 13th trticks, kinda hard to find for anyone I think.

but rememebr that after 5NT if you lets say KQJXX somewhere, it is not tiem to asnwert, it is time to bid 7NT.

[helium]

i THINK WRONG HAND WENT TO BLACKWOOD, NORTH SHOULD q-BID 4♦, AND SUTH SHOULD BE BIDDING 4 NT.

[Free]

Helium, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE WITH CAPITAL LETTERS??? You can try small ones as well...

Anyway, North has all controls. So why should he bid 4♦, get a 4♥ response, and what's next? And how can South find ♦Q anyway??? He can only count 11 tricks!

Perhaps next time when responding with capital letters, you can try posting something that makes SENSE...

[Fluffy]

1♦-1♥
2NT-3♥
4♣-4♠
4NT-5♣ (or 5♦)
6♦-6NT
7♥

I thin that makes sense, south can count 1♠,6♥,2♣+ 4♦ if ♦Q on partner´s hands.

[Free]

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding? I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...

[Fluffy]

actually it has a small disadvantage, after 6♦ partner coudl have ♠AKQ and could not count 13 tricks since he is missing ♦K (he doesn´t know if we have ♦Q or ♦K)

[helium]

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 02:43 PM, said:

Helium, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE WITH CAPITAL LETTERS???  You can try small ones as well...

Anyway, North has all controls.  So why should he bid 4♦, get a 4♥ response, and what's next?  And how can South find ♦Q anyway???  He can only count 11 tricks! 

Perhaps next time when responding with capital letters, you can try posting something that makes SENSE... 

Hi free:)
sounds like u need to get laid or somthing, seems u have a lot of frustration inside since u get this upset over me useing big letters:)))

but if it helps u sleep atnigh ill use small letter when i post my nosens ok?)

(ps my english isnt that good eather so i hope u dont choke on my typos:))



And agree whit fluffy a 4♠Q- is better then a ♦Q.
kenneth

[helium]

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding? I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...

Well they Q-bid clubs and use 5 ace blackwood, whats so different in Q-bidding ♠too????

[Free]

helium, on Sep 10 2004, 12:12 AM, said:

Free, on Sep 9 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Yes this makes sense Fluffy, but do you see any beginners/intermediates find that bidding?  I think that's more for advanced+, but ok...

Well they Q-bid clubs and use 5 ace blackwood, whats so different in Q-bidding ♠too????

Well ok, if they know 5 ace blackwood (also known as "RKC" ) and Q-bidding and when to skip controls, then what is this doing in a Beginner/intermediate forum?

helium said:

Hi free:)
sounds like u need to get laid or somthing, seems u have a lot of frustration inside since u get this upset over me useing big letters:)))

You're absolutely right, it's been hours ago!!

[luke warm]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah, whatever *grin*

[sceptic]

Quote

http://master.mx-tar...stlogdt%3D20040

Fluffy, we play italian cue bids, so if me and p were reversed I would bid 4 diamonds after 4 clubs.

Why would you bid 4 spades (is that because you Q bid aces only?) or is there another reason?

[sceptic]

sigh so much for my cyber skills, I cant even cut and paste properly hehe