[pbleighton]

"In terms of the rest of your post, it's certainly true that a lot of very fine bridge players agree with you. However, you forgot some cases ...
6. Sometimes you pre-empt your partner.
7. Sometimes you push opps into a making game/slam.
8. Sometimes you tell them how to play it."

Yes

However, on balance I find 1-5 outweigh 6-8, though to be honest not
by much. If one style of preempting was clearly superior, it would
be dominant.

I know which is more fun though

Peter

[MickyB]

gregsolomon, on Sep 16 2004, 10:49 AM, said:

Most interesting result was that I found that I didn't really need 2C as an artificial game force - I either played all one bids as forcing as per Fantoni-Nunes or put my GF hands through 1C as per Nightmare and others.

------------------------------------------------------

I used Fantoni-Nunes two bids for a while (these are just natural 10-13 unbalanced) but the responses are a bit tricky for me. My preferred methods now are to open 2C/D on 10-13 points 4+ cards with a 5+ card major and respond as per the Multi 2D. 2H/S similarly show a 4+ card major and a 5+card minor.

IMO with sound openers, it is better to just make 1/1 responses lighter than to make the opening bids forcing. It seems much more likely to me that this will make you overbid on 19 opposite 2 than underbid on 23 opposite 2, unless you put a lot of work into continuations. 1C including any GF also needs some work, and comes under a lot of pressure in competitive situations (does 1C-(4H)-P-(P), 4S show both black suits or GF with spades?)

I agree that F-N two bids are very tricky to respond to, 2H could be 4-5-1-3, 1-5-4-3 or 2-6-2-3. I still can't quite convince myself that it could actually work I prefer to make 1D 12+, freeing up 2D as a multi. If 2C is artificial GF, then you can put 9-12 both majors into there as well (and maybe 9-12 with 6 diamonds).

While I can see the logic in two-suited two bids showing the 4 card suit rather than the 5 card suit, I think it is better suited to weaker openings when you are trying to give the opps problems. With a 10-13 range, I doubt the gains are worth the losses when you are given the choice between 2M in a 4-2 or 3m in a 5-2. I prefer 2M showing 5M4m and 2m showing 5m4M, or 4m4M when the time is right.

As to which method is more fun to play - I quite enjoy knowing that my partner has a solid opening bid, without having to pass a 1-5-4-3 11 count on the next hand.

[luke warm]

i guess i misread the f/n system notes, i understood only 1C to be forcing... as for the strength of 2 bids, it's all a matter of philosophy... bergen's 'better bidding' books discuss weak 2, intermediate 2, strong 2, giving plusses and minuses (but maybe he, like others, is biased)... he comes to the conclusion that weak 2s are the best and strong 2s the worst, but he bases all of his reasoning on his belief that an aggressive preemptive style of bidding wins more than it loses

his results seem to bear this out, at least until the acbl clipped his wings

[pbleighton]

"As to which method is more fun to play - I quite enjoy knowing that my partner has a solid opening bid, without having to pass a 1-5-4-3 11 count on the next hand."

Depends what you like and what you're good at.

Now maybe if my defense were better...

Peter

[LAGOON]

laughter, on Sep 9 2004, 11:51 AM, said:

I recently subscribed to Bridge Today and heard a great deal about this style of weak 2.
The Granovetters just love this style:
2D/2M shows 6+ suit, good hand, not enough HCPs for one level opening (which means 13+). It promises at least 1 defensive trick, and opener may bid freely in competition.
I think they can open this toy with something like:
AKxxxxx-Kxx-xx-x
KJxxxx-x-AQxx-xx
Many light one level opening will be opened 2 playing this style.
Anyone has tried this style?
It seems to me quite the opposite of the super light free-style preempts that are prevailing nowadays.

My partner and I have been playing this style of weak two bids for some time. I think I read and article by Sandy Trent and we just started playing it. Then I was flipping thru the Granovetters' book on Bridge Conventions in Depth and there was a whole chapter on Trent Weak Two Bids. We adopted the whole thing.

We play MP's using a Barry Crane light opening style of bidding. Trent comes up all the time and a big advantage is you know your partner has at least one defensive trick and are able to make MP light doubles frequently for big scores.

For the older type of weak two bid we just open at the 3 level. Works for us.