[Trinidad]

Trinidad, on 2011-March-24, 15:52, said:

I don't get it. How can this possibly be a GSF?

I have not shown any controls and partner says that the grand depends on my spade holding only?!? I can buy that aces in the minors are not relevant. After all, partner could well have minor voids. But how can the ♥K be unimportant? It just doesn't exist.

Rik

chasetb, on 2011-March-24, 16:02, said:

Partner has shown at least 6♥ and 5♠ as well as extra values. When you chose Spades, you showed shortness in ♥, which implies that with the 5NT bid (s)he has the A♥ as well as the K♠ and/or Q♠, and probably A♣ and a Diamond void. Partner was willing to go to 6 opposite you having NO help in Spades, yet you have both the A♠ and the K♥, which he shouldn't expect you to have, not to mention the K♣ and A♦. This hand clearly exists, and is worth 6♠ since they have agreements over GSF.

Why can't I be 3-2 in the majors?
Why can't I be 2-1 in the majors?

I mean, it is pretty simple to me: If you have this kind of a hand, with these controls, you want to be in 7♠. But I still don't get what kind of hand partner can have to justify 5NT. The actual hand is an example of a hand that should not bid 5NT. If I don't have the ♠A and ♥K and 6♠ is pretty poor. If I am 2-1 in the majors it is already down on a trump lead.

I would open the actual hand with 1♠. After that I will rebid hearts until I get a preference from partner.

It might go:

1♠-2♦    5+♠ - GF 5(4)+♦
2♥-2♠    5-4+ ♠+♥ - 3 or 2 ♠
3♥-3♠    5-5+ ♠+♥ - 3♠
4♣-4♦    mixed cue - mixed cue
4♥-4♠    mixed cue - Still a balanced minimum
5♣-5♥    1st round control - ♥A or K (obviously partner and I know it is the K because partner has cued hearts before)
5NT-...    GSF - whatever response shows 1
7♠

Obviously, there are still a lot of decisions that could go some other way, and that might complicate the auction.

Rik

[Zelandakh]

Treating Opener's hand as at least an Acol 2, bidding for me is

1C = 15+ bal, or 15+ nat, or 18+ any
... - 1S = 9+, no 4 card major, GF
1N = relay, usually 18+
... - 2C = 5+ diamonds, 0-4 clubs
2D = relay
... - 2H = 4 clubs
2S = relay
... - 2N = 5 diamonds
3C = relay
... - 4H = 3154, extras, 5 controls
4S = relay
... - 5H = diamond control, club control, spade control, no HA
5N = Q ask
... - 6C = no CQ
6H = HK/Q? (non-forcing)
... - 6S = yes, but no SQ
7S

If Responder does not have the HK we have to play 6H instead of 6S. Usually this sequence with 5NT asks specifically for queens but in the case of a singleton suit the King is also counted since it is otherwise difficult to locate.

[johnu]

What else can 5NT be except a classical GSF? If partner had doubt about which suit to play, they could bid 6♥. Lacking the ♥K,and the ♠A, partner must be gambling that hearts can be set up by a ruff or two (or possibly a finesse) if you only have the ♠A. You have both so 7 must be a good contract. I bid 7♥ in case hearts may play better than spades.

[barryallen]

Am I missing something here? After that sequence I would bid 5♥ and would expect partner holding the ♥K and ♠A to put us straight into the grand. Even if partner was unsure of what was going on, there would be little doubt with a 6♠ bid over a possible 5♠ rebid. But as it was the 5NT bid should be good enough to enable the grand to be bid? Once you take onboard there is no interest in the minor holdings?

[1eyedjack]

chasetb, on 2011-March-25, 12:57, said:

If you want to get there (easily?), play Precision Club and open that hand 1♣.

If you want the auction to be at the 4 level before you get to make your first descriptive bid, play precision club and open that hand 1C

[MrAce]

Trinidad, on 2011-March-25, 13:19, said:

Why can't I be 3-2 in the majors?
Why can't I be 2-1 in the majors?

I mean, it is pretty simple to me: If you have this kind of a hand, with these controls, you want to be in 7♠. But I still don't get what kind of hand partner can have to justify 5NT. The actual hand is an example of a hand that should not bid 5NT. If I don't have the ♠A and ♥K and 6♠ is pretty poor. If I am 2-1 in the majors it is already down on a trump lead.

I would open the actual hand with 1♠. After that I will rebid hearts until I get a preference from partner.

It might go:

1♠-2♦    5+♠ - GF 5(4)+♦
2♥-2♠    5-4+ ♠+♥ - 3 or 2 ♠
3♥-3♠    5-5+ ♠+♥ - 3♠
4♣-4♦    mixed cue - mixed cue
4♥-4♠    mixed cue - Still a balanced minimum
5♣-5♥    1st round control - ♥A or K (obviously partner and I know it is the K because partner has cued hearts before)
5NT-...    GSF - whatever response shows 1
7♠

Obviously, there are still a lot of decisions that could go some other way, and that might complicate the auction.

Rik

I'd rather bid like the guy bid in this topic instead of this, even if i believed for a second that a 7-6 hand should be bid scienticly. And is there a special merit to open your shorter suit ? Or did you know pd was gonna make a forcing 2/1 response before u opened this hand the way u did ? Or would you open it 1♥ if pd had 3♥ and stiff ♠ ?

[barryallen]

johnu, on 2011-April-11, 23:52, said:

What else can 5NT be except a classical GSF? If partner had doubt about which suit to play, they could bid 6♥. Lacking the ♥K,and the ♠A, partner must be gambling that hearts can be set up by a ruff or two (or possibly a finesse) if you only have the ♠A. You have both so 7 must be a good contract. I bid 7♥ in case hearts may play better than spades.

Unless you have other agreements for 5NT in this sequence, it has to be grand slam force. All the difficulty is taken out of the rebid by the simple fact you have both the ♥K and the ♠A. Add in the fact that the ♥K is singleton and that you have ♠Axx, I would bid 7♠ on the expectation that will play better?

Opener has defined his two suits as ♥ and ♠, showed no interest in our minor suit holdings and is committing the partnership to the grand slam with the right cards. When you hold the ♥K and the ♠A it is not difficult to work out this is going to give opener two extra tricks and anything but ending up in 7 is now unthinkable? More of a problem if you just hold ♠Axx, but the bidding should be enough of a clue to come to the right decision. Opener has committed to the small slam with two key cards missing, but I don't see a great deal wrong with that given his holding and partners responses.