I have decided to play the Unsual Positives treatment that uses 2♥, 2♠, 3♣, 3♦ to show 4441 and 8hcp+ with the bid suit indicating that the singleton is in the suit above it.
What I would like to know is what becomes of the hand types that would normally make those bids in Wei's original Precision.
2♥ and 2♠ would normally show a 6-card suit with 4-7hcp. With 7hcp I am happy to bid these hands as 1♥ and/or 1♠. What if the hcp is weaker? Are they going into 1♦?
3♣ and 3♦ would normally show a 7-card suit with 4-7hcp. Would all of these hcp counts become 2♣ and/or 2♦ as appropriate?
Could someone throw light on my darkness?
Many thanks for any and all relevant posts.
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Unusual Positives: The Lost Bids?
#2
Posted 2011-March-23, 06:57
Bid 1♦, and hope you can show your hand later on.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#3
Posted 2011-March-23, 07:04
When I played Precision, we used 2NT for all 4441 positives, which allowed us to keep the original meanings for 2♥, 2♠, 3♣, 3♦. After a 2NT response, 3♣ asked for the suit-below-the-singleton, after which a bid of a suit set that suit and asked for controls.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
London UK
#4
Posted 2011-March-23, 07:49
Berkowitz's treatment isn't bad... it allows you to keep 2M as "weak 2 type" and splits the 4441s into weaker/stronger categories.
1C-
2H/S: 4-6 6 card suit w/concentrated values
3C: 8-13 4=4=4=1 or 1=4=4=4 (black singleton); 3D asks; 3H=clubs, 3S=spades
3D: 8-13 4=(14)=4 (red singleton); 3H asks; 3S=diamonds, 3NT=hearts
3H: 14+ 1=4=4=4
3S: AKQxxxx+ somewhere
3NT: 14+ 4=4=4=1
4C: 14+ 4=4=1=4
4D: 14+ 4=1=4=4
On the 1C-3m responses, most of the time opener won't need to know the location of the singleton and can just place the contract.
1C-
2H/S: 4-6 6 card suit w/concentrated values
3C: 8-13 4=4=4=1 or 1=4=4=4 (black singleton); 3D asks; 3H=clubs, 3S=spades
3D: 8-13 4=(14)=4 (red singleton); 3H asks; 3S=diamonds, 3NT=hearts
3H: 14+ 1=4=4=4
3S: AKQxxxx+ somewhere
3NT: 14+ 4=4=4=1
4C: 14+ 4=4=1=4
4D: 14+ 4=1=4=4
On the 1C-3m responses, most of the time opener won't need to know the location of the singleton and can just place the contract.
#5
Posted 2011-March-27, 11:35
Another approach which I have used for 3 years:
1 ♣ - 2♥ = any 4441 hand. 2♠ asks for 1-under the singleton.
1♣ - 2♠ = 5440 with a 5-cd minor. 2NT asks for the minor, 3♣ = 5♣, 3♦ = 4=0=5=4, 3♥ = 0=4=5=4, and 3♠ = 4=4=5=0.
Later bid of the singleton or void asks for Controls, suit bids below game are RKC.
1 ♣ - 2♥ = any 4441 hand. 2♠ asks for 1-under the singleton.
1♣ - 2♠ = 5440 with a 5-cd minor. 2NT asks for the minor, 3♣ = 5♣, 3♦ = 4=0=5=4, 3♥ = 0=4=5=4, and 3♠ = 4=4=5=0.
Later bid of the singleton or void asks for Controls, suit bids below game are RKC.
Ultra ♣ Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
#6
Posted 2011-March-27, 12:42
Unusual positives r new for me, but i remeber bout a book from 60`s
or 70`s made by Belladonna or Garozzo or one of those "Blue boys". They used impossible negative bids in responsing strong ♣ opening.
Basicly u respond 1♦ negative with positive 4441 hand and then u jump next round in suit below the singleton. I do hope that my memory serves me correctly
.
or 70`s made by Belladonna or Garozzo or one of those "Blue boys". They used impossible negative bids in responsing strong ♣ opening.
Basicly u respond 1♦ negative with positive 4441 hand and then u jump next round in suit below the singleton. I do hope that my memory serves me correctly
![:lol:](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
#7
Posted 2011-March-27, 17:42
If you're going to use a direct bid to show all the 4441 positives, I like 2♠ a lot more than 2N. That way the concealed hand can play 3N and have it's stopper(s) protected from the obvious lead.
I currently play that these strong 4441 hands respond 1♦, together with most 0-7 hands, and usually jump later in the auction.
I currently play that these strong 4441 hands respond 1♦, together with most 0-7 hands, and usually jump later in the auction.
#8
Posted 2011-March-27, 18:11
rbforster, on 2011-March-27, 17:42, said:
If you're going to use a direct bid to show all the 4441 positives, I like 2♠ a lot more than 2N. That way the concealed hand can play 3N and have it's stopper(s) protected from the obvious lead.
I currently play that these strong 4441 hands respond 1♦, together with most 0-7 hands, and usually jump later in the auction.
I currently play that these strong 4441 hands respond 1♦, together with most 0-7 hands, and usually jump later in the auction.
Jumps later in the auction could be better used as mini-splinters and 4-7 hcp or fit jumps either of which tend to be more frequent than impossible negatives.
It also good technique to use 1-under to show the singleton then the bid of the singleton can be Beta for Controls and a suit bid is RKC with that suit usually trumps (or the Q is missing in the opener's hand).
Pay your money and take your choice for what is most important to you.
Ultra ♣ Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
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